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Howdy folk, I just wanna take up some of your time to discuss the issue of armor saves in this edition. Primarily the effect of the Tau & Elder codex's.

The question is, are armor saves worth the points?

My take on the issue is that in the shooting phase, a armor save has lost much of its value. This is due to influx of low AP weapons in the 6th Edition books. Helldrakes, Tau Suits & Eldar rending are the main culprits but also IG/SM lists which favor plasma weapons.

Its in assault I find armor saves to be most effective. A +2Sv is a huge factor when power mauls/swords/lighting claws. Apart from the Daemon codex's with its MC/rending/Ap2 at initiative, CC is where the armor save is most effective.

I've found much the reverse. Armor saves are more important than ever, because anything that protects your valuable Troops from the large amount of small arms fire in this edition is worth it. One of the big strengths of Tau is that their Fire Warriors have 4+ armor saves instead of 5+, and are thus much more resilient to bolters, Thunderfire Cannons, Serpent Shields, etc. than Imperial Guard or Eldar.

In 5th edition, armor mattered a lot less than it does now because practically everyone had 4+ cover all the time and could go to ground for a 3+. 4+ armor in particular was almost worthless and usually carried a cost premium to boot. Luckily, cover saves are now somewhat harder to get and much easier to deny, making armor saves more important and valuable.

The exception is that nearly every unit that has a 2+ armor save is also expensive enough per-model that the 2+ save isn't really doing that much to protect them. For instance, for one TH/SS Terminator with 2+/3++ armor, I could instead have 3 Tactical Marines with 3+ armor. The Tactical Marines are more resilient against both small arms and AP 1/2 shooting, given the existence of cover.

I agree with the OP, although my usual opponent is a tau player and he enjoys making sure I get as few saves as possible so until I get into CC its 'get invuln or get dead.'

I guess my default answer would have always been yes. The only time I ever calculate whether a save was worth it was Inv saves for my Orks.

Cybork saves for Grots? It's possible but almost triple the costs o the model whereas for NobBikerz, it's an auto include even though they get 4+ armor and 4+ cover.

Foot Nobz I'd still pay the points for 5++ Inv but never 4+ Armor even though they're the same cost.

I'd never take terminators for their 2+. I'd only take them as TH/SS because that 3++ is a steal at 40ppm.

I always assume my opp's have a cover save when I shoot at them thus don't care about low ap weaponry.

As far as CC, Str 10 AP 2 PK's kill anything so once again Opp's Armor saves mean nothing to me.

Against normal armies, the armor save is great, obviously against armies that can bring a lot of AP2 or AP1 like IG it's not so great, but the real problem is armies that can shoot so much that even with an armor save it doesn't do anything.

Eldar and Tau are the big culprits. People say "Oh the Wave Serpent doesn't even have an AP value". Okay, go ahead and stand in the open while 6 of them unload on you and see what happens. Same with Ethereal pulse fire and high yield missile spam. Sure you get a 3+. He's throwing over 100 dice at you though.