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Alright, so Times are tough right now regarding money, and I don't think i'll be able to get a lot of models to expand my army.... So, I have to play with what I have! Now, I was planning on building a WS biker army but currently only have two squads of 6 bikers and one black knight squad. Now i was using the black knights as a grav command squad for a game, and don't think that would change. I have Codex DA, and Codex Space marine, and used Codex Da before.

Now, should I stick to codex DA? my theme is GoTC as my chapter, so the DA would be the parent chapter, but i want to play what I feel would be my own army and not be stuck with one thing only.

If money is tight, then stick with DA for the moment, as they are probably better for all-bike armies and Black Knights are better than Grav-bikers if you ask me. You'll struggle with pure ravenwing with that few bikes, so do you have anything in way of other parts of the army. There's nothing to stop you expanding or going with C:SM in future, but for the moment, depending on what else you have, I imagine you'd be better off with a Ravenwing-focused army with greenwing or deathwing support. If you post what you have, I'm happy to help you make a list that focuses on the RW.

Alright, thanks!


lets see, i have;

40 various tactical marine with 1 flamer, 2 melta, 2 plasma guns, 3 missile launchers, one las, 1 plasma cannon, and 1 heavy bolter

10 tactical Terminators with 5 deathwing knights

2 librarians, 3 chaplains, 4 captains and sammuel.

12 bikers with 6 black knights, two typhoon speeders and two attack bikes

a storm talon

two dreads ( one is a rifleman)

2 rhinos, 2 racorbacks, one half built predator, 2 vindicators and one land raider crusader.


just a whole lot of stuff.

Iron hands av spam army maybe Allie in DA for a pfg and whatever else you like

Ok then, here goes:

HQ:
Sammael: 200

Elites:
Deathwing squad, 5 termies: 220

Deathwing squad, 5 termies: 220 (note- can run as one squad of 10 if you want)

Deathwing knights: 235

Troops:
Ravenwing attack squadron:
- 6 bikes, 2x melta: 181
-attack bike, multi-melta: 55
- typhoon speeder: 75

Ravenwing attack squadron:
-6 bikes, 2x plasma: 191
Attack bike, MM: 55
Typhoon speeder: 75

Tactical Squad, 10 men, combi-plasma, plasma cannon, plasma gun: 170
Rhino: 35

Tactical Squad, 10 men, combi-melta, meltagun, MM: 160
Rhino: 35

Fast attack:
5 Black Knights: 210

Total: 1852 (just drop a combi if your opponent is picky)

This gives you a fast and mobile list, that will hit hard early in the game. The DW should be arriving T2 using the homers on the bikes, while the rhinos flat-out to the midfield and try and take a good defensive position to provide fire support for the rest of the army. You are a little light on AT at range (although you've got the termies and lots of melta/plasma) so focus on moving fast, getting close, hitting hard and pulling out before you get bogged down. The knights (both kinds) should go after the biggest targets, Sam riding with the BK.

As a side note, if you want to run a particular SM chapter tactic, then you can always drop a typhoon, take an allied libby and then make the Tac squads SM and still have a legal list.

Hope that helps.

I never would have thought of this! thank you =D Goes to show how little I actually think about making these kinds of lists >.<

Alright, i'll try this a few times, although I have some tweaks i have to make. like How i can't have plasma on one RW squad, but can have flamers!

And what about adding azreal to the mix to have a lot of troops? i can use one of my models as him.

Flamers instead of plasma on the RW is fine, it just changes their role but is no worse. As for HQ, while Az makes pretty much everything in the list scoring, he doesn't really fit anywhere, as the termies will DS which he can't), he can't go with the bikes, and to fit him with the rhinos you need to lose a tac (and therefore a special weapon). Sammael is better as you still get scoring bikes (I's say more useful that scoring termies as they can turbo-boost in the last turn to grab something) and he has potential in CC, especially when hitting with the black knights. 12 bikes, 2 attack bikes and 20 tacs should provide ample scoring, really, so long as you don't get the bikes tied up with a tarpit (remember to always use Hit And Run in the enemy turn, so you can move away before they shoot/charge you again).

ah, didn't think of that x-x I'll give it a go, then!! time to copy paste!

Also, just for fun, Here is the WS list I was planning on running using the stuff I already had with quite a few proxies



This list already seen one game, but I was very eager about my new rules. I really shouldn't have moved so close to those monsterous creatures... only a 2" charge for them on turn one

Actually, that WS list looks ok (although I'd still prefer the pure DA one), you've got a good mix of stuff. The only thing is it seems a little short on scoring, butt then you do have tougher, more mobile bikers that are cheaper, so there is that. The only thing the WS list lacks is a hard pure CC unit like the DWK, although I guess you don't really need one if you don't want.

I think on the whole, thanks to WS Chapter Tactics, SM benefit from going with the all-bike approach, as everyone gets better jink/HOW, whereas the DA can mesh together the DW, RW and tactical elements more effectively thanks to the synergy between RW and DW with the likes of DWA+teleport homers ect.

The black knights can pull double duty with assault i'm guessing. And i would go for all bikes if i had more... once I get another squad, i'll make it into a 2 grav gun squad for some melty goodness! I would use that to replace the tactical squad.


and the DA list may require some finesse so I would have to play around with it a little more!

Yeah, the BK can do assault rather well, all I was saying is that having something like DWK that you can rely on to absolutely smoke that MC, AV14 vehicle or deathstar.

By the way, I wasn't saying the mixed WS list was bad, just that SM are better when going all-bike. In other words, play to the strength of the DA codex until you can get the most from SM.

With the pure DA, all you need to do is just have a task for each unit and stick to it. It does take a while to get used to, but I really do recommend having a go with it, especially as you already had the models. If anything, an all-bike army would require more finesse and precision, as you have an even lower model count.

The best option is to play around with as many lists as possible with what you have, find something you like, and then get more of it as and when you can, slowly taking you towards a more specialised army which really fits your playstyle, while you've already got the core there to play deathwing, ravenwing or greenwing (or C:SM). Try them out at lower points to make sure you know exactly what you want before getting more.

just did the math, and your list came out to be 2067pts all together X-X tactical squads are off point wise. had to drop an attack bike and one deathwing squad, but changed black knights to RW command squad and added RW banner.



I'll try this list soon though!

Ah, I must have missed.... well, quite a lot actually. Damn. I'd suggest dropping the combis, possibly rhinos,and a termie squad to bring this back to the 1850 region then, Should still play the same, there's just more emphasis on the bikes.

Either way, it still illustrates how DA are better mixing than focusing on one facet.

i already dropped a few things and switched stuff around