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So i got back into 40k with a few friends about 6 months ago or so. Me being me, i already have two armies. Heh.

My best friend of 20 + years is slow building up an army. He has it probably half done. He just got wind yesterday that in 90 days his job may no longer exist.

He expressed the normal range of anxiety, etc., but in addition mentioned he was bummed that he might have to put finishing his army up to 2k on hold.


Unbeknownst to my friend today i got wind of a relatively minor, unlooked for, unforseen, financial windfall. It's not enough to pay off debts, just a small little "Oh hey, that's nice.". Couple hundred bucks. It's not going to pay off my mortgage.

My job and Sig-Other's job are perfectly stable. I have ample monthly budget i can blow on minis without batting an eyelash. Money is not really a concern for me at the moment.



Question is: Should i use the unknown windfall money to pick up the minis he needs to finish his army ?

1) I'm known for being exceedingly proud so my barometer on this kind of stuff is pretty bad - if you were in this situation and your best friend did this for you, would you feel guilty or thankful ? Fair being fair, we're more like family than true family is. I want to do something nice for my buddy, i don't want to offend him, or make him feel awkward by accepting something he feels guilty for accepting, but feels bad telling me he feels guilty (follow that paranoid logic, if you can!).

2) I know this would give him something to do if worse came to worst and he did become unemployed for a little while. Having had my own stint with unemployment about 5 years ago, painting minis helped keep my mind off it, and getting out of the fething house to play some games occasionally was a godsend mentally.

3) It's fair to note that savings and stuff isn't an issue. He's got a proper nest egg, so comments like "see if he needs the money more than toys" don't apply. That said, he's incredibly pragmatic, so losing his job will pretty much slam shut the door on frivolous purchases on a "better safe than sorry" basis.

4) It's worth noting too that this is not ENTIRELY 100% altruistic. He's almost certainly going to be my most often opponent, only lives a few miles away, whereas my next closest opponent is 40 -50 minutes. Full disclosure.

5) I will make it clear that there is no expectation of payback, whatsoever, even after he's back on his feet.

6) Final point: I can't bounce it off friends in common that he may lose his gig for very certain reasons i can't mention. So, again, no barometer for the best pool of opinions - good friends in common.



Would this be something cool that a friend did, or kind of a jab at one's pride ?

I also realize that "Gaming Forum" probably isn't the best place for this, but a completely neutral sample of opinion is sort of what i'm looking for when one considers i'm an awful judge at this kind of thing, and i can't really ask the people i'd trust the most... so there ya go dakka. Lay it on me.


EDIT: I probably should mention one more thing... if i do this, it's going to be stealth mode. As in, the next time we hang out, i'll have several boxes of stuff he's been planning out waiting for him. I wont' consult him first, because he'll do what any friend would do and tell me "you don't have to, blah blah blah". I know all that gak already, i know i don't have to. I just want to make sure it's not patronizing or offensive.

-- Haight

I'd lean towards no, but that's me.

Making too big of a deal about someone being broke is rarely going to help. He's probably going to stress about covering the basics, and 'money for luxuries' is pretty down on the list after food and shelter. Bringing it up can really drive it home and make the guy feel a lot worse about things.

On the other hand, if he's unemployed painting could be a good way to focus and keep motivated. I haven't been unemployed in forever, but friends have mentioned that the biggest problem is getting out of the 9-5 routine.

 Balance wrote:
I'd lean towards no, but that's me.

Making too big of a deal about someone being broke is rarely going to help. He's probably going to stress about covering the basics, and 'money for luxuries' is pretty down on the list after food and shelter. Bringing it up can really drive it home and make the guy feel a lot worse about things.

On the other hand, if he's unemployed painting could be a good way to focus and keep motivated. I haven't been unemployed in forever, but friends have mentioned that the biggest problem is getting out of the 9-5 routine.

Thanks for the feedback, and i totally would be in the same boat.

Couple things -

1) $$$ really isn't a concern in terms of "survival mode". He's got like a 6-9 month nest egg, and he's in an industry with pretty good market demand in the locale we live in. He's been on 2 interviews in the last year, turned down both jobs for relatively trivial reasons (one being commute, the other being "bad office vibe"). I'm not super concerned he won't find another gig relatively quickly, but in this job market who the F knows. Of course no one wants to run down their savings, so there's that.


Given those things, does that change your mind (completely understandable if not, but just curious, as your main negative point isn't, in his case, as big a concern as it would be with most people who have not saved as smartly) ?

Wait until he finds out whats happeneing with his job for definate.

Then if he's skint, don't tell him you're finishing his army - go out for a bit with him, go past your flgs or gw and ask if he minds popping in for a look. While you're there, ask him if he'd like anything/see if he spends time looking at something.

Buy him something every now and then - when you want him to be more interested in 40k

It'd take him a while to paint 200 dollars of stuff anyway. And if he doesn't lose his job, you run no risk of offending him

If he is a really good friend and you have that special relationship with him I would do it. I know I have had a couple of budies befoe and I have done that without asking for anything in return. It is the way we spend our time together though and its something that relaxes us. I feel like i would be much in your same position.

well, in 90 days it will almost be Christmas, so at least you have some cover if you decide to give him a bunch of minis...
then it doesn't look like charity, and ill be easier to accept...
so, that's convenient...

also, who doesn't like free toys???
crazy people, that's who...

this is a very nice move on your part...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
well, in 90 days it will almost be Christmas, so at least you have some cover if you decide to give him a bunch of minis...
then it doesn't look like charity, and ill be easier to accept...
so, that's convenient...

also, who doesn't like free toys???
crazy people, that's who...

this is a very nice move on your part...

cheers
jah

Yeah, this is where I'm going with it. Find an actual excuse to get them for him. Birthday's and Christmas are those perfect excuses.

Thanks for the feedback.... and holy gak, i never even considered christmas. DUH.... very good idea that. That'd be the perfect cover to get past any possible awkwardness.

Yeah, more and more i'm leaning towards "wait and see, but if he loses the gig, pull the trigger and do it".


Thanks all !

I wouldn't give him it, because he'll probably feel bad.

However, I might say something like "hey, if you've got the time, can you paint me some mini's in exchange for some of your own?"

It gives him something to do, lets him complete his army, and makes it seem like a much fairer deal all round.

 jah-joshua wrote:
also, who doesn't like free toys???
crazy people, that's who...

Nice

And agreed, Christmas-season makes giving so much easier to do

 jah-joshua wrote:
well, in 90 days it will almost be Christmas, so at least you have some cover if you decide to give him a bunch of minis...
then it doesn't look like charity, and ill be easier to accept...
so, that's convenient...

also, who doesn't like free toys???
crazy people, that's who...

this is a very nice move on your part...

cheers
jah

100% this.

Go for it.... Good friends are hard to come by these days...

has he played with his army at all?

While my friend didn't lose his job, I ended up giving him some stuff for his IG army that I had just sitting on a shelf in my office. I won a tournament many months ago and bought a Manticore and a Catachan command box (mainly for the special weapons). However, it sat there for the the better part of a year. With my interest primarily in my Eldar now...and his son now actively playing...I simply mailed those items to him. I don't need them and they really didn't cost me anything. He and his son will get more use out of those items than I. So I think that being charitable is a good thing. If it keeps players interested...specifically players in your gaming group...I say go for it.

I was also going to chime in with the birthday/Christmas thing. A group of us did that for a friend a few years ago, he was very happy. The friend we did this for is also like family to me.

Would this be something cool that a friend did, or kind of a jab at one's pride ?

Real friends as friends would see it as the former.

Do it and make him happy imo.

I'd go for it, but try to find 40k Xmas wrapping paper.

 cincydooley wrote:


Yeah, this is where I'm going with it. Find an actual excuse to get them for him. Birthday's and Christmas are those perfect excuses.

+1 for birthdays/Christmas.

Herzlos wrote:
I wouldn't give him it, because he'll probably feel bad.

However, I might say something like "hey, if you've got the time, can you paint me some mini's in exchange for some of your own?"

It gives him something to do, lets him complete his army, and makes it seem like a much fairer deal all round.

Ya know, i thought about something like this, but we're both ridiculously anal retentive about our painting. Probably wouldn't work out - good thought though !


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SheSpits wrote:
has he played with his army at all?

We've both played some really really small games. Like 450 points. Just to get the feel of the rules. We're also building a new table in my basement which will make it easier for us to get games in more frequently.

That said, when we were playing fantasy, we were getting in a game or two a week, so the saturation potential is there.

Just be like, "dude I got you this for Christmas but I'm giving it to you now because I want to fight against it."

Heck yeah, I would definitely do this for a close friend especially if you look at him like family. You can tell him you got him an early Bday present or even Christmas gift or just tell him that he deserves it for being such a good friend and that you really want to whip his butt on the table! Friends do stuff like that for friends occassionally, let him know he can "repay" you by playing against him in games and leave it at that. Hopefully one day he has a chance to "pay it forward" ** Shoot I almost forgot, one of my pals a year and a half ago saw that my son(12) was really interested in Chaos and one day came by with over 1500 points in GW cases of fully painted Thousand Sons army and handed over saying "you know, I don't really play anymore and I think you and your Dad would have a great time with these" I was totally blown away and thanked him, shook his hand and then had a couple beers and that was that." So now we have a small force of Space Marines, Orks and a medium force of Chaos. **

If it's framed and presented as a Christmas present, that changes things a bit.

My main concern is that even if it is a temporary situation egos bruise easily. Being laid off, even if it's a no-fault/company closure/end-of-contract/whatever situation, really sucks. Some people can take it very personally, even if the job market is good.

Importantly, there's a risk of a relationship changing from "We're friends" to "I'm your sidekick" if there's a perceived disparity in income.

This sounds like an awesome thing to do for a friend. I would do this for my buddy, and I look at him like my brother.

Good on you, I always like hearing that real friendships exist out there.

 jah-joshua wrote:
well, in 90 days it will almost be Christmas, so at least you have some cover if you decide to give him a bunch of minis...
then it doesn't look like charity, and ill be easier to accept...
so, that's convenient...

also, who doesn't like free toys???
crazy people, that's who...

this is a very nice move on your part...

cheers
jah

That was my thinking as well.

Christmas is a good suggestion, but some folks will feel bad if they get a christmas gift and can't give an equally good one in return. Feelings about equality in giving and indebtedness vary widely. It's not a good or a bad thing, but just a cultural norm that can differ from nationality to nationality or even family to family.

My recommendation is to go full stealth.

Buy the figs, box them up and ship/deliver anonymously. Maybe even sign it from "friends". He get's the stuff, you get a warm fuzzy feeling and no awkwardness or possible feelings of indebtedness.

I'm a big proponent of "not letting the right hand know what the left is doing" when it comes to giving.

No one can give you valid advice without knowing either of you. However, personally, I would definitely go for this:

 judgedoug wrote:
Just be like, "dude I got you this for Christmas but I'm giving it to you now because I want to fight against it."

Wow lots of replies ! I done made a decent thread for once


That said:

1) no issue at all of changing the friend dynamic for the person that brought that up. 23 years of friendship ... this guy has done it all for me, and me for him, short of hiding a body together (and frankly, i wouldn't rule it out).

2) I did start wondering if the x-mas thing might produce awkwardness if he couldn't give in kind (also, our christmas gifts normally consist of really good beer and coffee, we spend more on each others kids)... but honestly, i also know that even if there is a momentary "oh..." moment, we're good enough buds that he'll know exactly why i'm doing it. I kicked it past my girlfriend too, who has known him about 9 years and she also said it was a great idea.

3) So i think i'm just going to go with "Merry early christmas dude. I got you these because i want to fight against them." I will probably make a few disparaging remarks about his namby pamby eldar in the process (despite secretly loving them and their new codex).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chris_P wrote:
** Shoot I almost forgot, one of my pals a year and a half ago saw that my son(12) was really interested in Chaos and one day came by with over 1500 points in GW cases of fully painted Thousand Sons army and handed over saying "you know, I don't really play anymore and I think you and your Dad would have a great time with these" I was totally blown away and thanked him, shook his hand and then had a couple beers and that was that." So now we have a small force of Space Marines, Orks and a medium force of Chaos. **

This is a really cool story. The first time i got into 40k, someone did this for me with dark angels.. gave me like 1000 points to get me started. Love stuff like this.

 Haight wrote:
3) So i think i'm just going to go with "Merry early christmas dude. I got you these because i want to fight against them." I will probably make a few disparaging remarks about his namby pamby eldar in the process (despite secretly loving them and their new codex).

Sounds perfect

Heh, in my social circle I think armies and stuff have been given away more times than they've been sold.

Lessee. My Wood Elf army and a feth-ton of paints got shipped off to America for a friend of mine when I got out of the hobby while I went to Universaity, as a birthday present from three of us (another American and an Australian). The other two paid for the P&P and I supplied the models.

I asked a sculptor on here if I could buy a bit from one of their Daemon Princess sculpts as the basis for my own custom one and got it delivered to me for free a few days later. (Thanks Sersi!)

More recently, my boyfriend was getting bored of Imperial Guard, while my brother was eyeing them and wanted to drop his Space Wolves. My brother now has the Imperial Guard army (easily 2000 points, not including a Shadowsword kit, plus a mass of bitz for them), in return for buying a reasonable number of units of Dark Eldar for my boyfriend, with the stipulation that he has to at least put the units together in order to get the next box. (So far he has an unassembled Venom, an assembled Archon/Duke Siliscus conversion, partly assembled Wyches and unassembled Warriors... he bought the Venom himself due to the stipulation. )

 Haight wrote:
Wow lots of replies ! I done made a decent thread for once
3) So i think i'm just going to go with "Merry early christmas dude. I got you these because i want to fight against them." I will probably make a few disparaging remarks about his namby pamby eldar in the process (despite secretly loving them and their new codex).

glad to help! I figure it's probably the most true anyway. Sure you wanna help your buddy, but you also really wanna see those models on the table!... and you really wanna blast 'em.