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I've been playing Warmachine now for a little over 6 months. I've been using Duplicolor Black Sandable primer, but on some of my models the paint is already starting to come off because they are metal. In fact Duplicolor Black Primer starts to scratch off immediately after I spray it onto a miniature and the only way to make the paint somewhat stick is to cover it in some kind of matte varnish. Are there any primers I could use instead? I don't want my models to lose paint just because of the fact that I'm using them to play game.

Thanks.

If you have an airbrush Vallejo makes great primers. If you're using cans and want to dish out the cash. P3 Primer is pretty darn good, So is army builder. I'm sure there are cheaper primers that work as well I just haven't used them so I can't recommend them.

Oh and with metal models you want to seal them! Use a gloss coat for strength and a matte to bring it back down from the crazy gloss. This might actually be what the issue is rather than the primer.

 darefsky wrote:
If you have an airbrush Vallejo makes great primers. If you're using cans and want to dish out the cash. P3 Primer is pretty darn good, So is army builder. I'm sure there are cheaper primers that work as well I just haven't used them so I can't recommend them.

Oh and with metal models you want to seal them! Use a gloss coat for strength and a matte to bring it back down from the crazy gloss. This might actually be what the issue is rather than the primer.

I unfortunately do not have an airbrush. =( I'd go with Army Builder but the humidity in Florida is killer so I won't be able to prime when I can. =(

Yeah I agree about sealing them since that helps, but what I'm referring to is when I prime them the paint is already flaking off if I pick them up on a spot where I primed the metal model.

The idea that humidity is a spray primer killer is a myth. I lived in Orlando for 6 years and spray primed every summer and every winter, outdoors. Never once did I have a problem. The key is to use a true primer, (Krylon Black Primer for me) and step outside, spray, then bring everything back inside to dry.

I live in Orlando. I've used Duplicolor sandable primer this past July, under 100 degree plus weather, and under 80 percent humidity (even after it rains). Not one issue. It all depends on what primer you use.

My issue still is that the primer tends to flake off of the model once its dried. I wouldn't mind if it dried and remained on the model. My issue is that the primer flakes off to the touch. That means it isn't sticking to the surface of the metal as well as it should be.

That could be a couple of things, might be mold release still on the models but I haven't really come across the issue with PP models. Could be oils from your fingers. I'd recommend washing one in dish soap and drying it, prime it and see what happens.

If you are worried about humidity there is also brush on primer that works ok, not a personal favorite but it might help.

Krylon works for me.

Board to pieces! I never heard of the stuff before my friend introduced me but it has the quality of the GW primer, which is fantastic!, but for 1/2 the cost and comes with a fan tip sprayer. I have never used anything since.

 Red Comet wrote:
I've been playing Warmachine now for a little over 6 months. I've been using Duplicolor Black Sandable primer, but on some of my models the paint is already starting to come off because they are metal. In fact Duplicolor Black Primer starts to scratch off immediately after I spray it onto a miniature and the only way to make the paint somewhat stick is to cover it in some kind of matte varnish. Are there any primers I could use instead? I don't want my models to lose paint just because of the fact that I'm using them to play game.

Thanks.

Oh I hope you are washing your metals in a light detergent, and scrubbing them with something like an old toothbrush. The metals are cast using a talc powder. washing them up will help your paint stick. I don't envy you the humidity, I lived in Tennessee for years and the humidity would kill primer!

 Kelly502 wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
I've been playing Warmachine now for a little over 6 months. I've been using Duplicolor Black Sandable primer, but on some of my models the paint is already starting to come off because they are metal. In fact Duplicolor Black Primer starts to scratch off immediately after I spray it onto a miniature and the only way to make the paint somewhat stick is to cover it in some kind of matte varnish. Are there any primers I could use instead? I don't want my models to lose paint just because of the fact that I'm using them to play game.

Thanks.

Oh I hope you are washing your metals in a light detergent, and scrubbing them with something like an old toothbrush. The metals are cast using a talc powder. washing them up will help your paint stick. I don't envy you the humidity, I lived in Tennessee for years and the humidity would kill primer!

I don't take a toothbrush to them but I do scrub them a bit with my fingers using dish soap. Humidity here in Florida is terrible.

I've had good luck with Krylon Indoor/Outdoor Primer (I use grey, personally) with a few light coats of varnish over the top (two coats, usually, of Krylon Crystal clear gloss, followed by a topcoat of Testors Dullcote).

As mentioned, you should definitely clean your models before spraying - mild soapy water and a thorough scrubbing with a stiff brush (chip brush or toothbrush) will guarantee a clean surface for the best bond.

Perhaps just as importantly, do you start working once your primer is dry or do you wait until it's cured? There's a distinct difference that many people ignore or aren't aware of. Models can generally be handled gently or carefully painted over within a few hours, as the primer is dry to the touch, but it won't have attained its full strength for far longer (some products can take days, others are pretty much done if left overnight).

Flaking is generally due to poor adhesion (need better model prep), whereas abrasion is more often due to uncured primer (need to wait longer before handling). Take a closer look at the actual damage, as well as your painting method and treatment of the model. It may not be an issue with your chosen primer, at all.

I have used a short Simple Green bath to clean models before priming. Just let them soak for a few minutes, then brush them with an old toothbrush under running water. Make sure to rinse them thoroughly and let dry completely. This should give you a completely oil free surface to prime on.

Again, humidity has nothing to do with bad priming.

http://mistressofminis.blogspot.com/2013/05/primer-on-priming-part-ii-primary.html

I'll try re scrubbing my models again since pretty much none of my metal models are painted at the moment except for one. I'll let you all know how that turns out.

The primer scrapes off as soon as I rub it against something. I doubt that's natural if its dry to the touch.

1. Wash and dry the models. I run mine through the dishwasher in batches.

2. Spray with car body primer.

3. Paint.

4. Varnish with a coat of gloss polyurethane followed by a coat of matt.

5. Try to pick up the figures by the base when playing.

 Red Comet wrote:
The primer scrapes off as soon as I rub it against something. I doubt that's natural if its dry to the touch.

Again, dry to the touch is not the same as fully cured (same with acrylics - thick ones skin over before the bottom dries, thin ones are easier to strip the more recently they were painted). If you look at threads about Vallejo's PU primer, the verdict on its resilience is decidedly split. Everyone who uses it successfully advises the same thing, every time - just wait an extra day. Not curing fast enough for you is a perfectly valid reason to switch brands, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the primer doesn't work. How long have you left a model alone between spraying it and handling it? That really may make all the difference (or it may mean nothing, if the product is truly garbage).

On my metal minis I do this:
- Clean mould lines and such (ok it's obvious)
- brush with a dremel brass brush (mini becomes darker, shinier, smoother but does not lose details)
- wash in warm water and dish soap, rinse, dry
- prime (for what primer, I like Tamiya spray can - Vallejo surface primer can be airbrushed _and_ hand-brushed)