Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

For the last to years I been doing cover saves for my rhinos after my opponent rolls his penetration rolls. At the hobby store, I saw the people there do their vehicle cover saves after the "to hit" rolls and before the penetration rolls. I looked in both 5th and 6th and saw they never really tell you when to do the saves. I guess I have been doing it wrong this whole time?

Where they shooting at a flyer by any chance?

You get saves against Pens and Glances. Saving hits is incorrect. You have been doing it correctly.

Against flyers that elect to evade (Jink) they roll saves before Armor pen rolls are made.

For non flyers they roll saves after Armor pen rolls are made.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Against flyers that elect to evade (Jink) they roll saves before Armor pen rolls are made.

No they don't, they choose to Evade after hits and before armor penetration, but they still roll jink normally

 CrownAxe wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Against flyers that elect to evade (Jink) they roll saves before Armor pen rolls are made.

No they don't, they choose to Evade after hits and before armor penetration, but they still roll jink normally

Non Flyer Skimmer:
Roll to hit
Roll to pen.
Jink vs glancing and penning hits.

Flyer:
Roll to hit
Jink vs hits
Roll to pen.

Flyers dont look like they follow the normal routine to me ;-)

 CrownAxe wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Against flyers that elect to evade (Jink) they roll saves before Armor pen rolls are made.

No they don't, they choose to Evade after hits and before armor penetration, but they still roll jink normally

Right they elect to evade at that time. I misremembered.

Th0rh4mm3r wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Against flyers that elect to evade (Jink) they roll saves before Armor pen rolls are made.

No they don't, they choose to Evade after hits and before armor penetration, but they still roll jink normally

Non Flyer Skimmer:
Roll to hit
Roll to pen.
Jink vs glancing and penning hits.

Flyer:
Roll to hit
Jink vs hits
Roll to pen.

Flyers dont look like they follow the normal routine to me ;-)

I believe you'll find its:
Flyer
Roll to hit
Decide to Evade or not
Roll to pen
Roll Jink saves if chosen to Evade

There's no change in the order of the rules, you just add in a stage that grants Jink.

Not that it actually matters, since rolling hit -> save -> pen is exactly the same as rolling hit -> pen -> save.

 Peregrine wrote:
Not that it actually matters, since rolling hit -> save -> pen is exactly the same as rolling hit -> pen -> save.

Not always. If the roll to save has a higher chance of success then the roll to pen (and it usually does) then the number of dice being rolled will be lower if you save after penetrating. Changing the number of dice being rolled changes the odds.

 DJGietzen wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Not that it actually matters, since rolling hit -> save -> pen is exactly the same as rolling hit -> pen -> save.

Not always. If the roll to save has a higher chance of success then the roll to pen (and it usually does) then the number of dice being rolled will be lower if you save after penetrating. Changing the number of dice being rolled changes the odds.

not how math works. It's all effectively multiplication of decimals and you can do that in any order you like and the result will be the same

its more of a "feels like it makes a difference thing"

I know what your saying but I also think part of it is all in the mind.

Here's an example 4 missiles hit a landraider in smoke. Would you rather try and roll 4 saves now or just the 1 that might glance?

Even though the chance is the same, it feels better only having to save the one hit

The decision point does matter, though; a flyer would love to know whether those hits penetrated before deciding whether to evade and jink.

rossatdi wrote:


I believe you'll find its:
Flyer
Roll to hit
Decide to Evade or not
Roll to pen
Roll Jink saves if chosen to Evade

There's no change in the order of the rules, you just add in a stage that grants Jink.

This is dead on.