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I mean, for 25 points it basically makes you immune to psychic attacks. I have a lot of Daemon players in my area, and I can think of one or two players with Tzeench heavy armies that are going to ragequit when I field that thing.

For me it has been a true lifesaver as two of my regular opponents have come to hate my two riptides and have found out that JOTWW is a very good way to bring them down. It has also saved me from multiple attempts at psychic shriek and puppet master. So in pretty much every battle one riptide is always equiped with the amulet.

For hillariousness you can combine it with an allied librarian's psychic hood for a 133 % chance to deny the witch.

Not exactly immune, but it's pretty awesome, yes. I'd say it's pretty much an auto-take.

 Dantioch wrote:
For hillariousness you can combine it with an allied librarian's psychic hood for a 133 % chance to deny the witch.

I thought Finland had a good education system. Were you locked in the sauna the day they did probability?

 Dantioch wrote:
For hillariousness you can combine it with an allied librarian's psychic hood for a 133 % chance to deny the witch.

You're only allowed one roll to deny the witch. So, which is going to be? Talisman or Psychic Hood?

It gets really crazy when you attach a ML3 pskyer to the bearers unit. If it's a Farseer and he fortunes the unit it becomes a 4+ rerollable 4D6 lol. Surrounding units still only get 4D6, but at that point we're probably talking about protecting a Deathstar anyway.

 Wilytank wrote:

 Dantioch wrote:
For hillariousness you can combine it with an allied librarian's psychic hood for a 133 % chance to deny the witch.

You're only allowed one roll to deny the witch. So, which is going to be? Talisman or Psychic Hood?

No, they'll stack.

Psychic Hood means the Libby counts as being in the unit. So it is effectively the Libby who is holding the Talisman.

Th amulet isn't a deny the witch per say, it boost the deny the witch roll of all units within 12" therefore you can put a librarian either in the same unit or just within 6". The psychic hood increases the chances of deny the witch and the amulet esentially gives you multiple attempts to get the desired result. Therefore you have four attempts to roll 5+ Which according to basic math is 4/3 or 133%

Ummm no... you cant have over 100% chance of success when there is still a chance of failure, its called probability and unless the effect is active on a 1+ you will never have 100%.

 Dantioch wrote:
Th amulet isn't a deny the witch per say, it boost the deny the witch roll of all units within 12" therefore you can put a librarian either in the same unit or just within 6". The psychic hood increases the chances of deny the witch and the amulet esentially gives you multiple attempts to get the desired result. Therefore you have four attempts to roll 5+ Which according to basic math is 4/3 or 133%

No, its 4(1/3) or 1.333 successes.

Not a 133% chance of success.

 Dantioch wrote:
Therefore you have four attempts to roll 5+ Which according to basic math is 4/3 or 133%

Probability 101:

Probability can be expressed through percentages, on a band stretching from 0% to 100%. The probabilistic percentage value given to the outcome, X, indicates its likelihood of transpiring.

0% probability for X means that X will never happen, no matter what.

100% probability for X means that X will happen every time. No matter what.

There is no "133% chance of X happening." That is a nonsensical statement.


Probability can also be expressed through fractions. 0/1 means it will never happen. 1/1 means it happens everytime. 1/6 means it is expected to happen one of six times.

4/3 means you pass Deny the Witch four times on three attempts. Which is clearly impossible.

3/3 for passing DtW with a Librarian nearby is also an incorrect statement. Why? It's possible to roll four dice and have none of them show up as a five or a six, is it not?


Go back to school, or take some night classes, and you might just be able to figure out the actual probability.

It is a 80% chance to deny the witch on a 5+ with 4d6.

To get the answer 1-(2/3)^4

 ansacs wrote:
It is a 80% chance to deny the witch on a 5+ with 4d6.

To get the answer 1-(2/3)^4

This.

Basic Math FTW.

The normal 4d6 roll has a 51% of success.

Thank you for the correction, I haven't done anything with probability in a year and my skills as you have all pointed out are a bit rusty

 Dantioch wrote:
Th amulet isn't a deny the witch per say, it boost the deny the witch roll of all units within 12" therefore you can put a librarian either in the same unit or just within 6". The psychic hood increases the chances of deny the witch and the amulet esentially gives you multiple attempts to get the desired result. Therefore you have four attempts to roll 5+ Which according to basic math is 4/3 or 133%

He is clearly 133% wrong!

On a side note, I think addin the talisman should only be done if you have points for it after you get the things you truly need. For me, I generally have a few points left over. At that point, you can prob just drop 2 drones for it but I personally would rather have the drones :/.

The Talisman is an auto-take for me due to JOTWW, Psychic Shriek, Puppet Master, and other psychic based nastiness that can really put a crimp in my 'tides.

I think a more intriguing question for those taking or allying in Enclave is if the Codex is worth taking. Especially in this new world we live in with Space Marines being stronger and more likely to be seen in and out of tournaments.

This makes me smile, yep bunch your army up even more, espically if you want to use a psyhic hood to improve your deny.

It is a good piece kit of though but on a direct replacement with the Tau codex systems, overall they win out.

Just to go back to the maths, pretty sure every answer on here is wrong.

Should be 77.78% I think

You've got 4 possible routes to pass (p) and 1 to fail (f):

P = saved
F P = saved
F F P = saved
F F F P = saved
F F F F = failed

4/5 = saved, so 80% right? Wrong.

Every P is a 1 in 3 (33.33%) chance, every F a 2 in 3 (66.66% ) chance, so each route is not equally likely.

For example, the chances of succeeding first time are 1 in 3. The chances of succeeding on roll 2 are a 2 in 3, then 1 in 3 chance (so 2/3 x 1/3 = 2/9).

The chances of saving EITHER on the 1st roll or the 2nd roll are then: 1/3 + 2/9 = 5/9...

In total...

P = 1/3 = 1/3
F P = 2/3 x 1/3 = 2/9
F F P = 2/3 x 2/3 x 1/3 = 4/27
F F F P = 2/3 x 2/3 x 2/3 x 1/3 = 6/81

(1/3 + 2/9 = 5/9)
+
(4/27 + 6/81 = 18/81 = 2/9)

=7/9... which is 77.78%.

I think? So, like, I haven't done probability for 15 years but I think it is. If its not, at least I had a bit of sad geeky fun.

EDIT - so, yeah. That 6/81 should be 8/81, meaning in total it's 80.25%... which is the same as someone else above said (1-(2/3)^4). Well, kept me entertained for a random google find.

 ansacs wrote:
It is a 80% chance to deny the witch on a 5+ with 4d6.

To get the answer 1-(2/3)^4

This is correct SirWalterManny.

On a 6+ DTW, 52%. 1-(5/6)^4
On a 5+ DTW, 80%. 1-(2/3)^4
On a 4+ DTW, 96%. 1-(1/2)^4