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Heya..

I'm looking to get into the lotr miniature game. But I'm quite confused about the rule books. Is people playing the hobbit or lotr sbg? Or are they compatible with each other? If so, which one?

- Sempthegreat

That's something you need to ask your local group, since that's who you will be playing.

You need the hobbit rules book for both. Lotr and the hobbit are compatible you can have dwarfs vs. goblin town.

You need the hobbit rules book but LOTR profiles are in the source books.

Exactly so; the Hobbit rules are an update to the LotR ruleset. As DKB said, the LotR sourcebooks will have all the profiles you need for anything not in the Hobbit book.

GW seems to really have butchered the release for this.

There seems to be so much confusion regarding the latest rules!

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
GW seems to really have butchered the release for this.

There seems to be so much confusion regarding the latest rules!

Yeah, they could have made it clearer somehow.

Also, @OP: You can still use the LotR with LotR models if you want (that's what some people in my group do). But I'm not sure if the LotR rules are compatible with the Hobbit rules, though I presume they are.

 The Shadow wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
GW seems to really have butchered the release for this.

There seems to be so much confusion regarding the latest rules!

Yeah, they could have made it clearer somehow.

Also, @OP: You can still use the LotR with LotR models if you want (that's what some people in my group do). But I'm not sure if the LotR rules are compatible with the Hobbit rules, though I presume they are.

They are, The Hobbit is merely the 5th edition of LoTR rules.

 Krellnus wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
GW seems to really have butchered the release for this.

There seems to be so much confusion regarding the latest rules!

Yeah, they could have made it clearer somehow.

Also, @OP: You can still use the LotR with LotR models if you want (that's what some people in my group do). But I'm not sure if the LotR rules are compatible with the Hobbit rules, though I presume they are.

They are, The Hobbit is merely the 5th edition of LoTR rules.

I thought as much.

Thanks for clearing that up. It truly is confusing, should have just kept with the same bloody name of Lord of the Rings.

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey: The Game sounds fething terrible as well.

Been looking into this game, as its going for dirt cheap second hand (here in NZ, the home of LotR of all places). I've been told that it got really... big, I guess, in a recent edition, and the change of scale negatively impacted the game in a big way. Anyone know what I mean, and which edition is best for playing a nice, fun skirmish scale game over beers with your mates?

Sounds to me like they migh be referring to War Of The Rings - which is horrible. But LOTR or The Hobbit are both good skirish games - they are essentially the same rule set, fro memoery the Hobbit introduces some new magic rules, and the later sourcebooks have a slightly different army composition.

The main problem with the game is finding opponents.

The only new thing in the hobbit is some extra focus on characters with new Heroic Actions, and some new weapon rules. In LOTR, a sword/axe/mace were all hand weapons and had the same rules, now they each have special attacks (which I forget all the time, so I'm basically playing LOTR).

I'd say that the scale of LOTR and the Hobbit are just about the same really, and works as a skirmish really well. As far as I'm aware, all the armies are balanced (I don't have the latest sourcebooks, but previously they have been) with nothing brokenly overpowered. They scale pretty well going into larger battles, although once you get past about 50 models a side, I'd suggest going with WOTR instead. But then mantic's KOW rules work just as well there.

To be honest, I'd say that, unless you want to get bogged down in having to work out every weapon on every model and what it does, then go for the latest edition of LOTR. The rules for Thorin's Comany are on the GW site, so you can get those, and pretty much everything else is covered in the sourcebooks. You wont get rules for some of the other Hobbit characters, but if you want to use them then there are some pretty good matches in the older stuff. For example, Azog=Gothmog or Finbul=Sharku.

If you want an even cheaper entry and are just playing with friends, then just play with the hardback LOTR rulebook, as that has profiles for almost every model in barring some really obscure ones, so saves you buying sourcebooks. As long as you're all using those rules, then they'll be balanced, and you'll have a good time without some of the overcomplicated/unnecessary rules in The Hobbit.

Actually hunter orcs and the goblin scribe are UNBALANCED.2 attack hunter orcs?A unit that can bring d3 and whatever he passes his courage test by goblins(that have free spears) onto ANY board edge?.A hero that wounds ALL heroes(Including the balrog/sauron) on 3+?So some of the hobbit units are OP.But LOTR units are balanced.

Da krimson barun wrote:
Actually hunter orcs and the goblin scribe are UNBALANCED.2 attack hunter orcs?A unit that can bring d3 and whatever he passes his courage test by goblins(that have free spears) onto ANY board edge?.A hero that wounds ALL heroes(Including the balrog/sauron) on 3+?So some of the hobbit units are OP.But LOTR units are balanced.

Ah, I see, I'm not that familiar with most of the hobbit stuff, just Thorin's Company who get used with my dwarves. I guess that is just another reason to stick with LOTR.

That would be the equivalent of refusing to play 6th edition 40K just because you thought one codex was unbalanced.

Also note that Hunter Orcs lose their bonus attack if mounted, Goblin Warriors have a worse stat line than their Moria counterparts (one less Defence) and can only use their 'free spears' to support other Goblins. Plus to get those free goblins you have to spend a fair amount of points on a basically immobile model that can do almost nothing else.

As for Azog always wounding on a 3+ he also cost almost half of what the Balrog does, over half if you purchase his mount.

The difference between the Hobbit/LOTR and 40k is that with LOTR the rules are generally all released at the same time, so should (in theory) be balanced by that, making it easier to set a point and say 'we're using these rules, nothing newer, nothing older', whereas in 40k, that's difficult as you have some codexes that go for 10 years without updates, while some get updates every edition. As such, it's difficult to pick the point at which to stop.

It would be perfectly feasible to use the LOTR rules on their own, in any of their iterations, as on the whole, most recent editions have been all updated at the same time. I still use the old hardback rulebook and none of the sourcebooks, and it works fine.

 Ghaz wrote:
That would be the equivalent of refusing to play 6th edition 40K just because you thought one codex was unbalanced.

Also note that Hunter Orcs lose their bonus attack if mounted, Goblin Warriors have a worse stat line than their Moria counterparts (one less Defence) and can only use their 'free spears' to support other Goblins. Plus to get those free goblins you have to spend a fair amount of points on a basically immobile model that can do almost nothing else.

As for Azog always wounding on a 3+ he also cost almost half of what the Balrog does, over half if you purchase his mount.

Then don't mount your hunter orcs.New goblins may have a weaker statline but as they are a point cheaper(Since its not very likely you'll take them unequiped.)50 points for 20ish extra goblins altogether?And the goblin king has a armour save.In the LOTR sbg.

If you don't mount your hunter orcs, then they're slower. Still a disadvantage and not as 'unbalanced' as your trying to make them out to be.

And again, if your problem is with the units and not the base rules, then it is exactly as I've said. There is no reason not to use the Hobbit SBG rulebook just because someone says some of the units are 'unbalanced'. The core rules are just fine.

While The Hobbit is the 'current' rules, and thus the ones you will need to play in tournaments or pick up games at a store, I personally think that The Lord of the Rings rules are better. The biggest difference between the two sets is The Hobbit added a bunch of new options, such as new ways to use might and special strikes for different types of weapons. In my opinion, these rules actually make the game worse. I'm not convinced all of the implications were fully thought out, and it feels like they created the new rules just to force the old players into buying the new book.

If you are just getting the game for your own enjoyment, or to play with your group of friends, I'd see if you could pick up a copy of the blue Lord of the Rings book. It's cheaper, and I think better.

joe5mc wrote:
While The Hobbit is the 'current' rules, and thus the ones you will need to play in tournaments or pick up games at a store, I personally think that The Lord of the Rings rules are better. The biggest difference between the two sets is The Hobbit added a bunch of new options, such as new ways to use might and special strikes for different types of weapons. In my opinion, these rules actually make the game worse. I'm not convinced all of the implications were fully thought out, and it feels like they created the new rules just to force the old players into buying the new book.

If you are just getting the game for your own enjoyment, or to play with your group of friends, I'd see if you could pick up a copy of the blue Lord of the Rings book. It's cheaper, and I think better.

A lot of those new rules have helped ballance the game. It made it so that my elves actually had a chance against monsters without having to bring ents or eagles. Before that I had no chance against them except hope they run if the rest of the force is broken.