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Hello Dakka,

Below is my 1,750 point army that I intend to take to GTs. I welcome any comments/critiques/concerns.


HQ

Khan
-Moondrakin

Troops

x5 Bikes
2 Grav guns, 1 combi grav

x5 Bikes
2 Grav guns, 1 combi grav

x4 bikes x1 attack bike
2 melta, combi melta, multi melta

x4 bikes x1 attack bike
2 melta, combi melta, multi melta

x5 bikes
2 flamer

Fast attack

Storm Talon
Skyhammer Missiles

Storm Talon
Skyhammer Missiles

Heavy Support

TFC

TFC

TFC

Allies

HQ

Rune Priest
Bike, Jaws + living Lightning

Troops

x5 Grey Hunters
Flamer

ADL comms relay

This should put me at 1,723 / 1, 750. Any suggestions for what to do with the remaining points?

I tried to keep this list lean with a good selection of troops, Rune priest for Psychic defense and Jaws+Concussive goodness, and comms relay to make the most out of Khans optional outflanking melta/flamer bikers, and the Storm Talons. This would be a low model count army coming in at around 37 models (if you count the TFC+gunner as one) There are elements to deal with both air, horde, and ADL camping gunlines as well as decently fast and some what tough scoring units that can pack a punch. I worry that a lot of my firepower is in my troops, which requires exposing them to bring it to use. With the amount of ignores cover flying around this concerns me.

Thoughts?

-From

No responses yet, is it safe to assume that this is perfect and requires not critique at all?

I like your extra mean Grav Gun / Jaws combo, lol.

I'm not an expert on marines but the list looks good. I think the lists you'll have a trouble with are tau in general. Eldar wave serpent spam (who doesn't have trouble against that cheese). And a fast daemon army as fast as you and can pick of your troops (see my 2k list for an example of this kind of list). Lists like this are always about positioning making sure you pick your battles. I think white scars are the way to run space marines although I don't think there top 3 in competative but definitely top 5

You make the list into a nicer format to read for one that'd probably net you some more comments. People may dispute whether the the attack bike contributes towards the 'squad of at least 5 bikes count as troops'. I would put runic armour and melta bombs on your rune priest with the extra 25 points.

I personally think you'll struggle against any list packing armour (annhilation barges spring to mind), the melta bikes will get to kill a single vehicle and then die to the return fire, I personally think it'll struggle against av13 wall and wave-serpent spam. Tau will also mow you down through weight of fire and ignores cover, and hell-drakes will love this army.

I'm also finding TFCs to be less awesome than they used to be due to the multiple barrage rules (scattering first shot is painful), maybe take a stalker or 3rd storm talon instead?

Thanks guys for the comments. I'll have to read more closely and see if the attack bike does count towards the tally of 5. A nicer format for my army list was suggest, could you point me in the direction of a well formatted list because this looks quite similar to what I've seen in the past. People seem to think this will struggle against ALL of the top armies eldar / tau / demons. What could be added to better handle those threats? Thanks all.

The other suggestion is to think about a command squad, and a cc commander.

Right now you have 5 shooting bike units. 4 of which have a good punch the other double flamer which is pretty lackluster.

The command squad with commander can be equipt in such a way that it becomes a major threat in both CC and Shooting, 4 grav guns apoth with a couple SS, and power fists lead by an EW captain or CM makes for a squad that has to be killed because of the Grav Gun fire, but is close to impossible to kill due to the EW leader and 3+ invo.

2 TFC are probably enough the comms unit your paying alot of points to get a reroll on your talons since nothing you have is sitting behind the wall.

My suggestion is to drop the flamer bikes and 1 MM bike squad 1 TFC and the comms to get the command squad with beatstick and use leftover points to tune.

tiber55 wrote:
The other suggestion is to think about a command squad, and a cc commander.

Right now you have 5 shooting bike units. 4 of which have a good punch the other double flamer which is pretty lackluster.

The command squad with commander can be equipt in such a way that it becomes a major threat in both CC and Shooting, 4 grav guns apoth with a couple SS, and power fists lead by an EW captain or CM makes for a squad that has to be killed because of the Grav Gun fire, but is close to impossible to kill due to the EW leader and 3+ invo.

2 TFC are probably enough the comms unit your paying alot of points to get a reroll on your talons since nothing you have is sitting behind the wall.

My suggestion is to drop the flamer bikes and 1 MM bike squad 1 TFC and the comms to get the command squad with beatstick and use leftover points to tune.

Just a few things I would like to point out as I have spoken with a few solid players about the topic of a command squad. It's good, but only 30~% more survivable and if you load it up with 4 grav guns it puts a lot of eggs in one basket that you opponent will go for. Also, to get a captain in there I would need to drop Khan, a captain + command squad kitted out is about 420 points, and my bikes would loose scout which brings me to my next point! Scout! The comms relay isn't just for the Talons, it will make my outflanking bikes come out of reserves more reliably, and there is a squad of Grey hunters to camp backfield behind it.

Edit: I agree that the flamer squad is lackluster and would consider changing it.

I'd consider taking out 1 thunderfire for another talon it will give you better anti armour and anti air.

Why would you drop khan?

Your right its probably around 420 points

But it gives you a unit that will survive, your bike units right now are not made to take a beating.

Khan and a Runepriest or Khan and Runepriest seperate do not make units that can stand up to being shot at or assaulted.

If you do what I suggested your replacing a MM squad with a 4 grav gun squad and getting rid of a redundant TFC, a Useless 5 man flamer squad, and a comms relay that may or may not do what you want.

If your going to scout with khan your need the alpha strike to hurt or else your just going to get whisked off the table. Outflanking bike units is nice, but then they are not at all participating with the rest of your scouting army, and tau will intercept them when they come on the table giving them baiscally a free shooting phase.

The big advantage khan brings is that turn 1 alpha strike you want it to hurt because you will be in range of anything that is left alive.

As for the ADL wall its outdone by putting your hunters in bolsterd area terrtain, you can bolster a piece of terrain and have them sit in it which will cover you from barrage weapons and allow you to GtG.

I think this list type has alot of potential don't get me wrong I wrote a list like it a day after the book came out. But I think it needs alot more playtesting. Scout will give you an alpha strike if you go first, or allow you to position best for going 2nd, but you have to really look at what happens to the board when half your army is there to be shot and the other half is outflanking/coming from reserve, the bike units themselves are not that hard to kill. Especailly by cover ignoring str 8 ap 2 blasts or weight of fire from wave serpents followed by Wraithknights.

True the command squad is a target priority for your opponent, but thats what its there for. With the unit you have the best shooting available to this list in 12 grav shots per turn, possibly orbital bombardment, the best save availble due to 2+/3++ EW and FNP, and the best CC by far that this list type can bring.

Playtest this list, work it out against the current top tournoment lists
5 wave serpent 2 Knight farseer lists
FMC deamon spam with fateweaver small scoring units
Trip/Quad tide with buffcomander farsight O'Vesa with small scoring units.
Triple/double Tervigon, Double Dakka Flyrant with doom, zoan, hive guard.

I think it may end up being that without the command squad you don't have the alpha necessary to protect your squads and you have no CC to countercharge units/ present the CC threat most armies in the top have.

I have a feeling were going to see very good space marine lists, TFC barrage, ability to deal with air, scouting armies, IWND armies, Tank huning cheap devs, relentless cheap devs, rerolling tacticals ability to ally with SW for 4+ deny bubble and Jawws. The potential is there.

I think the all bike list needs to be playtested alot more, and I do believe it will eventually come up that a list without the command squad / EW captain/CM just dosen't bring a hard enough alpha to justify having few if any units that can take a hit in either CC or being shot at.