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Right so i have fought my friend who plays nids 4 times and have lost each one.
First: 1000pt capture the relic, i played marines.
Result: two tactical squads plus command squad locked in close combat with hive guard, then destroyed when doom deepstrikes next to them.Dread locked in cc with about 50 termagants, sternguard killed off by doom's spell.
Second: 2000pt objectives, i play marine and guard allies
Result: russ and guard command squad outflanked and killed by mass of genestealers, whirlwind blown up turn one by carnifex, sternguard and their razorback killed by doom and flyrant, command squad and x number tacticals killed by doom (again) while locked in cc with 2nd flyrant, guard vets and scouts nommed by ymgarls spawned on objective, deathleaper helped.
Third: 1750 pt i play with a bigger guard detachment plus marine allies
Result: vendetta arrives in turn 4, by which time flyrants and doom have pretty much done the same as before, ymgarls and mawloc spawn behind my troops and nom.
4th: 1750 marines and ORKS(!)
Result: better, orks hilariously remain fearless due to numbers and doom kills a total of three in the whole game. For a change, my friend takes the swarmlord (atbthe time im just happy it doesnt fly). I then send a warboss, 8 nobs and 15ish boyz to kill it. They die horribly. Mawloc kills my librarian and devastators, my sternguard use a drop pod this time which sort of almost works except they get surrounded by 3 hiveguard, 20 termagants and 30 gaunts and a trygon and get wasted.

Clearly im missing something. Granted i'm new to 6th, but come on i thought nids were supposed to be not so great at the moment?

Kill it with fire?

grav-guns and plasma are very good against the big bugs - grav in relentless platforms (generally bikes) and plasma on infantry.

(heavy) flamer are quite good against the hordies. frag missiles and bolter fire too. Sternguard/Legion of the Damned create holes in their ranks.

you need to create a more mixed build vs tyranids, IMO. blasts and templates + high S low AP. Stormtalons, Whirlwinds, Devastators (heavy bolter) and Dev Centurions (bolter load) work wonders vs the 50 gaunts groups, while Dev Centurions (grav/lascannon + missile), Devastators (lascannon/missile), Annihilator Predators and grav-gun Bikes (especially Command Squads) are awesome vs the big ones. Try to abuse terrain to get cover vs Doom (or leave your marines inside transports).

Mawloc and Genestealers are a problem... An enclosed and long aegis would give some breathing air (mawloc can't appear under difficult terrain, I believe) and some troops defending your backfiring guys help too (or put them, if infantry, on buildings/bunkers)

Try to avoid melee as possible vs nids. If unavoidable, kit a CM + Honour Guard to deal with the biggest problems. meleeing gaunts is a terrible idea

Try and kill one MC at a time. Any of the big MC that nids have, even with 1 wound remaining, will still do alot of dammage. Don't try and kill all at one time. You need good target priority.

" Clearly im missing something. Granted i'm new to 6th, but come on i thought nids were supposed to be not so great at the moment?"

This comment might be the start of your problems, the armies are rarely the problem.... Generally it's the pilot Nids are good as the helmsmen they can still tear it up with the best of them, don't go thinking because SM has a shiny new dex victory is even close to guaranteed especially since these new dexes aren't Wardian creations from the dark days

That being said if your looking for a easy time look into SW and rune priests pretty straight forward from their

As has been mentioned, getting into CC with nids is rarely a good idea, as everything they have will generally tarpit you or tear entire squads apart.

There are a few ways round this, like deploying as far forward as possible and remaining at the edge of bolter range, and move back each turn, keeping them in range and maximising the number of turns/distance before they charge you.

Another one would be to combat squad everything if you aren't already doing so, meaning that the hordes can only kill 5 marines a turn unless they want to take double overwatch and lose a bonus attack.

If you are playing ultramarines, consider taking Calgar, as the ability to auto-run from any combat is great, as you can fall back and can't be swept.

As for dealing with the bugs that come from beind/below (mawlocs, trygons, ymgrals, lictors and ravenors), as has been said, try and use terrain, but failing that, consider keeping something shooty like sternguard in reserve, and then bring them on after he has brought in his, and counter-attack them.

If you're using IG, then consider the following:
Leman Russ Punisher, 3HB, Pask: This will put the hurt on hordes and MC alike, with the re-roll against the latter, and can be great fire support.

Platoon infantry: keep them as single squads with flamers, use them as speed bumps and kill the nids that ate them the next turn. Give your PCS 4 flamers for maximum anti-horde defence.

Leman Russ Vanquisher, LC/PC: expensive, but one of the best KC killers IG have.

Rismonite wrote:Kill it with fire?

Yep kitted my guard toon with 12 flamers all up, but str 4 ap 5 doesnt do too much to mcs, i know its a case of i play scissors, he plays rock because he always gets my anti horde unit (guard flamer toon, whirlwind) with the flying mc, then my high str low ap stuff (which admittedly is mainly cc power fists and meltaguns etc) he gets with horde swamp.

Vector Strike wrote:grav-guns and plasma are very good against the big bugs - grav in relentless platforms (generally bikes) and plasma on infantry.

(heavy) flamer are quite good against the hordies. frag missiles and bolter fire too. Sternguard/Legion of the Damned create holes in their ranks.

you need to create a more mixed build vs tyranids, IMO. blasts and templates + high S low AP. Stormtalons, Whirlwinds, Devastators (heavy bolter) and Dev Centurions (bolter load) work wonders vs the 50 gaunts groups, while Dev Centurions (grav/lascannon + missile), Devastators (lascannon/missile), Annihilator Predators and grav-gun Bikes (especially Command Squads) are awesome vs the big ones. Try to abuse terrain to get cover vs Doom (or leave your marines inside transports).

Mawloc and Genestealers are a problem... An enclosed and long aegis would give some breathing air (mawloc can't appear under difficult terrain, I believe) and some troops defending your backfiring guys help too (or put them, if infantry, on buildings/bunkers)

Try to avoid melee as possible vs nids. If unavoidable, kit a CM + Honour Guard to deal with the biggest problems. meleeing gaunts is a terrible idea

Yep i did consider an aegis and will likely make that my next purchase, was thinking putting devs in there to give it bs5? (Signum) no one in our local group has centurions yet so i dont know much about them, but certainly will try proxy them for a game and see. Sternguard have pulled their weight so far, do you think im on the right track deep striking them behind the mcs?

Arthas367 wrote:" Clearly im missing something. Granted i'm new to 6th, but come on i thought nids were supposed to be not so great at the moment?"

This comment might be the start of your problems, the armies are rarely the problem.... Generally it's the pilot Nids are good as the helmsmen they can still tear it up with the best of them, don't go thinking because SM has a shiny new dex victory is even close to guaranteed especially since these new dexes aren't Wardian creations from the dark days

That being said if your looking for a easy time look into SW and rune priests pretty straight forward from their

Totally agree, a poor craftsman blaming his tools i would like to keep going with a sons of medusa army if poss because i like the fluff, is there any way that could still be competitive? I have a razorback that im keen to put assault cannons on, with techie inside and iron hands rules thatll get a 5+ iwnd regen plus 3+ techie (5+ base, +1 servoharness +1 iron hands rule) regen, 4 rending twin linked shots could double as swarm killer plus ad hoc aa? I mean if it hits on a 6, it wounds automatically right?

Rismonite wrote:Kill it with fire?