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So, i'm a Khador guy, and as such have been used to running light on Jacks. As a gift, however, I was given about 50pts worth of Protectorate, and will look to play them in the next league my local Ganger runs. My Casters are P-Kreoss, and Harbinger...

Anyway, I noticed that so much of what I was given is Jack support, and yet any 35pt or lower list I can conceive of, seems to have one, or two Jacks at most. Am I seeing that correctly? I mean, Choir of Menoth, Vassel Mechanik, Vassal of Menoth, are all Jack support, so I feel weird adding them to a list that ONLY has an Avatar of Menoth as a heavy....?

I own... whatever came in the Menoth half of a two-player stater, Avatar of Menoth, the above casters, Vilemon, two Paladins of the Wall, a full unit of Exemplar Errants + UA + Seneschal...

Do I just own the wrong pieces for decent lists?

Seems like you were given a Protectorate list with almost no Jacks.

If you have only what came in the Menoth 2 player set, that puts your Jack collection at a Vanquisher, Crusader, Avatar, and Repenter.

Not exactly stellar but its enough to work with.



At 15 points I would go with this.

pKreoss
-Vanquisher
-Crusader
-Repenter

min Choir


Thats a decent start for just learning how Menoth plays.

At 25 points I would run the following.

pKreoss
-Vanquisher
-Crusader

min Choir
max Errants with UA
Errant Seneshal
Vassal


You are lacking Jack options but its not crippling.

I would think about picking up the Reckoner/Sanctifier/Castigator kit. Reckoner is the best non-character jack for its points in the game and the Sanctifier can be useful if running a bunch of infantry.

Reckoner and Vanquisher is a common pairing for nearly every Menoth caster.


Ignoring model limitations, this is what I would run at 35 points using the Casters you have.

pKreoss
-Vanquisher
-Reckoner
-Redeemer

min choir
max Errants with UA

Vassal
Covenant of Menoth
Rhupert


Harbinger
-Reckoner
-Vanquisher
-Heirophant

min Choir
max Errants with UA
Vilmon
2 Paladins
Wracks
Vassal

You technically can't just have the avatar as your 'jack since
he's not part of your battlegroup.

More specifically, you can't spend Jack points on him because he's not part of the Battlegroup.

Got it. Well thanks for the insights guys. Mind you, i'm not afraid to spend money to build up a faction... this is merely my starting point. I own mountains of Khador, and the wife likewise with Legion, so it isn't that i'm stuck with this for the life of the army... it is however my jumping off point, and having not played the faction, I wasn't sure how they customarily list-build, etc...

So I take it that the faction really does tend to run Jack heavy because of all the massive and cheap Jack buffing options?

Where does Avatar end up seeing use?

The Avatar tends to see use at 50 points as a heavy who doesn't need Focus. He's either good with a caster who doesn't have much focus to hand out, or with a caster who has Focus but already has his hands full with the normal amount of Jacks. He works well everywhere, but some caster like him more than others. He's mandatory in Harbinger's tier list which is pretty good.

You usually won't run more than 4 Jacks including the Avatar.

pKreoss likes shooty jacks because they synergize well with his feat. With a Reckoner, Vanquisher, and Redeemer(along with support) you can easily put 1 pow15, 1 pow16, and 3 pow14 shots on an enemy warcaster hitting on anything by snake eyes on Feat turn. And thats only with Choir singing battle, add a Vassal or two in there for extra shots of your choice.

Unless you have a caster who has tons of boxes and is at full camp they can't withstand that. Immune to Knockdown does also make this tactic ineffective.

His feat isn't only useful for assassination. You can also turn that shooting(or melee if you want) on the enemy army itself and just kill them. Then the caster is left sitting on his butt with most of his forces decimated.

I've been (forced to) running PSorscha for the Journey-Man League locally, so i'm pretty familiar with a similar strategy.

So I take it, just as a general practice, should I move over to Menoth as my main faction, that the plastic Reckoner kit and Redeemer, are good next purchases.

Any other "must have" bits worth owning for current and future list building?

The Reckoner is probably the best jack in the game for its points. Redeemer is a good light overall, especially with pKreoss or eFeora(when bonded) Its really good at clearing out stealth infantry(who tend to have armor between 11 and 12) as pow 6(8 with choir) blast damage can easily take a toll.

Other things you should eventually get.

Covenant of Menoth
Rhupert
Bastions
Temple Flameguard and UA
Zealots and UA
Eyriss and Gormen(if you don't already own them)
One magnetized kit of each heavy body
Devout
Wracks
Reclaimer(if you run 2+ units of infantry)

Other casters to consider
pSeverius
eFeora
Kreoss3

If you get Kreoss3, consider getting Vengers as well. He makes them amazing.

Well, I forgot to mention Wracks, as I do have a set of three, and likewise have Eyriss and Gormen already. Otherwise, I appreciate the suggestions, and will chip away at it if I go that route, play-wise. :-)

I also have to say that Judicator is, without question, my favorite Colossal, aesthetically, and a list with him and eFeora could be a lot of fun.