Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, here's a big question I am asking myself about Assault squads and Vanguard veterans for BT lists. But first, let met clarify something. Many people asked me: why bother with assault squad when you have crusader squads ? My answer : cuz I can have 2 flamers (and I face tyranids on a daily basis). Pretty simple answer. Maybe not a good one, but hey, it's a game, we field the models we want, and as long as we can get to our goal without shooting ourselves in the foot, no choice is wrong, right ?
So here's the question : how do you field these guys ?
Let's begin with the assault squad:
Should they keep their Jump Pack, or be fielded in a rhino or drop pod ? From my small experience (let's say we're making a list to face anyone and everyone), you want your CC units get to your opponent units quickly and without damage, even more if your opponent is playing shooty. I tried in the past doing that with jump packs, and most of the time my guys where almost all shot dead before even getting in charge range. And then, of course, there's overwatch (which can really hurts if your squad is greatly disminished). So my idea is : no JP. But then, Rhino or Drop Pod ? Following the previous reflexion, drop pod seems the way to go to get close to the enemy. However, I neet to be able to drop near my enemy AND cover (since you can't charge when disembarking of a drop pod). Some people would say I have the same problem about disembarking of a rhino, so why take the drop pod instead ? The answer is that there's a weakness about the rhino : it can get shot at while getting at the target (for example, by a multi-melta), and then my guys are left to move on foot.
If I instead take a drop pod, here's what I can do : I deep strike the Drop pod near my enemy (preferably between 6 and 18''). The assault marines disembark, trying to put covers between themselves and the enemy. Once this is done (if possible), use the flamers. Next turn, if the enemy hasn't charged me or shooted down my guys, move throught the cover, shoot with pistols and flamers, then charge (praying overwatch doesn't kill me to much).
So, I'd think an assault squad of Black Templars should be loaded like this (I'd like to say this is just my noob opinion):
Vet serg, power weapon, melta bombs, 2x flamers, no JP, Drop pod.
Why the vet sergeant ? Well, we're in 6th ed, so ranged has an advantage and we wouldn't want our assault squad to fail a moral test following a shoot-out.
Why the power weapon ? BT chapter tactics actually make the CC sergeant viable again, and in CC, AP 3 is always good (except againts TEQ,m but why would you go in CC with those cheeze-eaters ?)
Melta bombs ? Well, some enemies still play mech out there (IG, or even some CSM players that have a hard-on on Iron Warriors)
Flamers- what's not to like about them, except if you're playing againts heavy-mech and you don't have melta-bombs or you're playing againts MEQ and you didn't took the power weapon.
Drop pod - As explained before, but most importanly (if you don't have a Vanguard Squad or don't want to field him with them), you can field the EC with them (if for some weird reason you don't want to field him with crusader squad, or maybe because you want to go flame some gaunts and then chop them down hard)

Now that I tried to explain why I think Assault squads should be fielded as described previously (and keep in mind that this is just noob talk, I ain't no expert ), I seriously wonder, what is there to do with vanguards ?
These guys have access to some pretty neat stuff, but aren't cheap. Still, the question should be answered, eve if it's just to know what to do when playin a fun-list.
Should these guys take a DT or take the jump pack ? Sadly, both of these options will cost points. Speaking in terms of points, taking JP is the less costly. However,the same reflexion about Assault Squad can be made about them, so maybe a DT wouldn't be such a costly option considering how much it augment their chance at survival.
But what then ? The vanguards all have access to a lot of wargear, including : any melee weapon choice, grav/plasma pistol, melta bombs and storm shield (yes, 3+ armor save :O). If each is geared with a power weapon and a storm shield, they are actually cheaper than a unit of TH/SS assault terminators. However, one would say that termies have 2+/3+ while Vanguards just have access to 3+/3+. At this it can be replied that Termies might be disavantaged because of the init 1, compared to the init 4 of the vanguards. However, TH deiver way more of a punch than power weapons (sword or axe), and termies are capable of taking the beating till ini 1 (thought this can be dangerous if facing an ork mob).
So I guess pure CC vanguard squad isn't that great, considering that CC termies are in a way better (because capable of taking more of a beating).
However, let's remember that Vanguards have access to grav-pistols ! I, like many others, didn't really thought that grav pistols/guns would be such a big thing when reading the codex (because the roll to wound is equal to the armor save value of your opponent, and as such, they are only useful againts high armor sv target). But after seein a few batrep, I must conclude that they can be quite useful to hunt down some nasty units that might seems to dangerous to engage with softening them up first. These can be to soften up units of (for example) Dark Eldar Incubi, Tyranid Warriors, SM Terminators, or some high armor sv monstrous creatures like Daemon Princes, etc. Once the grav-pistols have been shot, they can kickly engage the enemy in CC to lock them up. So, I kinda see them like a squad of close-shooting kamikaze, because, let's be honest, there is far stronger CC and ranged units.
So this is what I (modestly) think. What your opinion on the subject ?

Flamers on assault squads that desire to actually get into combat as #1 prio is typically a weapon you don't want to fire unless you're within 3-5", otherwise you heavily risk the opponent taking models away and you failing charge.

Holy text brick batman.

I want to say jump packs would be best as it gives you the option of deep striking or being on foot without wasting a perfectly good pod.

As for the vanguards, 3+3++ is still pretty weak and with the loss of the old heroics should probably be left out. HOWEVER taken in a landraider might be interesting. (though would prefer an honor guard instead)

Edit: But i have yet to field them so take what you will.

I suggest whenever you feel making a flamer scout for a flamer in a crusader squad.