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After playing a recent game against Dark Angels, I looked into the rules for sammael and am really really confused...

In the battle he was taken with the sable claw upgrade, which makes his bike thingy into an armour 14 land speeder. Now what happens next? Does the armour and hull points over ride his toughness and wounds? What happens if you wreck the speeder does he become an infantry model? How does he do assault if he is now a speeder/vehicle?

In the game I simply multi melted the speeder with oblits then allowed my opponent to proxy a model as him on foot, then assault cannoned him to death (again) anyway.

If anyone can shed any light on this matter, it would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Ant

Sammael comes two ways: a jetbike and a land speeder. Jetbikes have stats like WS, W, I, etc. Vehicles have AVs. It is not a transport or a chariot.

Sammael cannot "get out" of his speeder, if it goes down so does he.

Oh right, thanks.
So having him on the sable claw is not really worth it unless you want that little bit of extra firepower or if you squadron him with other speeders??

Most people keep him on the jetbike as it is generally much more durable than AV14. It is possible for a single lascannon, railgun, melta, etc to destroy his land speed in one shot, but it would take multiple of these weapons to kill him with EW on a jetbike (just be sure to keep him away from high volumes of str4-5 firepower as it can bring him down.

 ChaosCrusader wrote:
So having him on the sable claw is not really worth it unless you want that little bit of extra firepower or if you squadron him with other speeders??

Still can't join him to a Speeder squadron, he's not an IC anymore (and IC's couldn't join vehicle squadrons anyway). He can't even make a sweep attack like he used to be able to (previous Codex or two...). But the option is still in the Codex incase people have the model from before the Jetbike version was available.

 Quanar wrote:

 ChaosCrusader wrote:
So having him on the sable claw is not really worth it unless you want that little bit of extra firepower or if you squadron him with other speeders??

Still can't join him to a Speeder squadron, he's not an IC anymore (and IC's couldn't join vehicle squadrons anyway). He can't even make a sweep attack like he used to be able to (previous Codex or two...). But the option is still in the Codex incase people have the model from before the Jetbike version was available.

yeah, the "upgrade" profile on page 58 is significantly worse. Not only does he loose IC, but also Inner Circle and Scouts. His WS is essentially erased and he is down one HP/Wound . He rolls for a warlord trait and looses a teleport homer.

Questionable if you can even take him as a warlord at that point in time. Not only does he lose his independent character status, but he does not gain any 'standard character' status to replace it. To date, only one vehicle has ever been given the privileged of being a character at the same time as being a vehicle and that is Bjorn. Given that your warlord has to be a HQ character, that renders Sammeal as a non-valid choice if he is in his land speeder.

Even though there is a warlord trait that specifically tells you how to resolve it if Sammeal in a land speeder is your warlord....

JinxDragon wrote:
Questionable if you can even take him as a warlord at that point in time. Not only does he lose his independent character status, but he does not gain any 'standard character' status to replace it. To date, only one vehicle has ever been given the privileged of being a character at the same time as being a vehicle and that is Bjorn. Given that your warlord has to be a HQ character, that renders Sammeal as a non-valid choice if he is in his land speeder.

Even though there is a warlord trait that specifically tells you how to resolve it if Sammeal in a land speeder is your warlord....

he also does not have any leadership. If there was another HQ choice character with ANY leadership they would be the warlord. Now, if he is your only HQ, maybe you don't get a warlord if you go by RAW?

You cannot have a legal list without a Warlord. It's as much a requirement has an HQ and 2 Troops.

JinxDragon wrote:
Questionable if you can even take him as a warlord at that point in time.

It's only questionable because his Warlord trait refers to him being in the speeder, which casts some doubt on their intentions... but strictly by the rules, there is no doubt at all. Your Warlord needs to be a character. Once in his speeder, Sammael isn't a character.

They really should have just made Sableclaw a Chariot that he cannot disembark from.

Agreed Insaniak, hence why the rest of that post went on to explain why it isn't possible and why it might be raised as a question.