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Does a character with an onager gauntlet that failed its mindshackle scarab leadership test cause d3 hits or only one if the necron player elects to have that model use the onager gauntlet?

The better question is "Is the Onager Gauntlet a CCW?"

Well, the person I played against said it was. I didn't read the entry in the book myself, so I couldn't tell you. I do know MSS let's you get d3 hits from models even if they have only 1 base attack, so I don't see why this would be different.

My opponent said he could swap out his attacks for 1 attack with the gauntlet profile, MSS only causes hits so I don't see why you couldn't cause d3 with the gauntlet. We played it where I only for one hit from the gauntlet, since "it could only ever cause one hit," but I wanted to check this out for future reference.

Assuming it is a melee weapon (which is iffy as it does not have a melee weapon profile), MSS would still cause D3 hits.

I would say the replace his attacks for 1 @ S10 is irrelevant, on the same grounds that a Daemon Weapon doesn't alter the number of attacks.

So I would say its D3 S10 hits

The answer would be No, the Onager Gauntlet lest the bearer substitute all his CC attacks for one Onager attack at S10 AP1.

However the MSS does not have "attacks" per se, the model simply inflicts D3 hits on his unit/self.

TBH, I don't think you can even use the Onager Gauntlet with MSS. It is not a CCW per se.

I'll have to look up the MSS entry in my codex, but doesn't the necron player get to use wargear and special rules the shackled model has that could be activated?

Followup: could MSS be used to have a space marine throw d3 crack grenades at himself/his unit?

 Happyjew wrote:
TBH, I don't think you can even use the Onager Gauntlet with MSS. It is not a CCW per se.

This. It's just a piece of wargear.

 RobPro wrote:
I'll have to look up the MSS entry in my codex, but doesn't the necron player get to use wargear and special rules the shackled model has that could be activated?

Followup: could MSS be used to have a space marine throw d3 crack grenades at himself/his unit?

That is an interesting question, but you cannot throw a 'nade in CC.

But whether it could be used to inflict D3 krak grenades in CC is, I believe, technically doable.
One problem though, they only have an effect against vehicles and MC.

Gotcha, I was just trying to find another item similar to the "trade all your attacks for one" kind of thing. I guess you could use that if you wanted to limit the units you kill to avoid wiping the unit out the turn you charge?

RobPro wrote:I'll have to look up the MSS entry in my codex, but doesn't the necron player get to use wargear and special rules the shackled model has that could be activated?

Followup: could MSS be used to have a space marine throw d3 crack grenades at himself/his unit?

MSS can only use abilities and penalties from the target's Melee weapons, not the target's special rules or wargear.

40k-noob wrote:

That is an interesting question, but you cannot throw a 'nade in CC.

But whether it could be used to inflict D3 krak grenades in CC is, I believe, technically doable.
One problem though, they only have an effect against vehicles and MC.

...and even if you can find one with krak grenades, you are probably better off using it's natural attacks.

its not a weapon, its just a wargear. Instead of actually trying to fight, the commander is just throwing a wild Falcon Punch hoping the enemy walks into his fist. Not labeled any sort of power fist/claw or anything.

I would need to do some research to confirm, but from my memory the gauntlet is not a close combat weapon but a simple piece of war-gear that provides a special rule. In order to evoke this special rule the Necron player would have to prove that the Mind Shackle Scarab rule-set allows them to access the special rules found on a model and not just the weapons themselves. Just because a special rule is used during the assault phase, against a target that is locked in combat, doesn't make it a close combat weapon.

They would then also have to meet the limitations of the special rule in order to evoke it. If I had a weapon that would cause effect X on wounds of a 6, then the rule could only be evoked if the wounds generated rolled a 6. The Necron player can not simply state that Mind Shackle Scarab grants them access, so they can use the rule on any wound rolls and not just the 6's. This is very important, because even if the Gauntlet's special rule can be accessed they would need to prove they meet the requirements to evoke it.

The limitation causing problems would be the one stating the Gauntlet wielding model exchange all attacks for a single attack. The Mind Shackle Scarabs special rule is not resolved in the manor of normal traditional attacks, but instead creates a random number of automatic hits. As the Gauntlet rules does not grant you permission to substitute hits, but specifically states attacks, you do not have permission to exchange the randomly generated auto-hits for a single massive attack that also auto-hits.

I would say one attack on the grounds of how the rule book says to do modifiers. So it goes d3 ADDITION then gets set to one by the gauntlets rule of of being a SET rule of 1. If the argument is made that that the the d3 attacks aren't cc attacks then you can't use the gauntlet since he has no attacks to exchange.

Gotcha, so to summarize-

MSS does NOT allow the Necron player to activate the Onager Gauntlet because it is not a close combat weapon, it is a piece of wargear that gives the Tau character another ability in close combat.

 RobPro wrote:
Gotcha, so to summarize-

MSS does NOT allow the Necron player to activate the Onager Gauntlet because it is not a close combat weapon, it is a piece of wargear that gives the Tau character another ability in close combat.

I agree with this interpretation, though I really wish it to be otherwise. Though, if my Destroyer Lord with mss is in combat with his commander... I already know who is winning the game.