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Made in ca
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






I'm looking for some constructive criticism on this list; tear it apart with your teeth if you have to! Hoping to end up with something moderately competitive & ~TAC (want to beat my buddies, but not wanting to play an overly venom spam list or planning on ace-ing tourneys or anything.)
As a heads up, my meta is Marine Heavy with a Tau Gunline who tends to win more than everyone else.

With no further ado;

HQ - Master Fleshwarper Abathur (Urien) -190

Elite - 3x Grotesque, LG, +Aberration w/ Venom Blade -230
Raider w/ Enhanced Sails, Grisly Trophies

Troops - 10x Kabalite Warriors, SC -170
Raider w/ Splinter Rack
2x 10x Wrack, LG -170
Raider
3x 5x Wych, HWG -125
Venom w/ 2xSC

Fast Attack - 6x Reaver Jetbikes, 2xBlaster -162
5x Scourges, 2xHaywire Blaster -130

Heavy Support - Ravager w/3xDissie - 105
2x Reaper w/NS -145

Total 1997

I haven't tried the Reapers yet, and while I know they're expensive and suffer from one big gun syndrome, I've got high hopes. That, plus I can basically guarantee Land Raiders (possibly Achilles) in my future.
Last thought; Urien's upgrade to Grotesque strength worth it?

I had one piece of advice recommending I drop one Reaper in favour of a NS Ravager, upgraded S on Grots, and an extra liquifier gun on one of the Wracks. How d'you figure that'd stack up?

What are your thoughts on Reapers, and the list in general?
Thanks!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/02 18:17:14


-I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Rock hard, ride free, and hold the heathen hammer high!
"Orkses is never beaten in battle; if we win, we win, if we die, we died fightin' so it doesn't count, and if we leg it, we always come back for anuvver go, see?"
God, I'd love to shunt the Hulk into the Eye of Terror and see what comes out. -Reiner
"Sons of the Last Breath"
"Host of Shattered Purity"
"Kabal of the Dying Sun, Cult of Marrow Excised, Coven of Lambent Hunger" 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





The Twilight Zone

If your up against tau, you may want to consider flickerfields on your skimmers just in case, but night shields are also important and something I would put everywhere.

The grot strength upgrade is probably overkill, decent if you have spare points but not needed. I would take a liquifier gun for the squad instead. Their raider does not need trophies as you can make them fearless off the bat with Urien.

The kabbie raider needs night shields, and the wracks need a second liquifier gun. Consider an acothyst with a toy for Ld9 and more utility. Wytch venom probably wants NS too.

Reavers are good, but I am not a fan of scourges. I think they are too expensive for 2 haywire shots that will only strip 1-2 hull points a turn on average, pretty meh. If you drop these you can kit your units out a la carte, maybe add extra reavers with the points.

Never heard of reapers, but a quick look at them and they seem pretty good. Tank killers, and the large blast for hordes, very solid. I would still take dark lances on the ravager though, you can never have too much AT as dark eldar being that everything is so fragile. The lances help deal with raiders and instagib T4 models like battlesuits and space marine characters. Night shields are a must here with either weapon.

The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden  
   
Made in ca
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






Thank you sir!
Scourges are another thing I haven't fielded yet, but have been reading mixed reviews. What you say makes sense; I think the reason I was going so hardcore on the haywire is due to getting thrashed my last match by an Achilles Land Raider (ignores lance). So if I dump the scourges and the grisly trophies, I can fit FF & NS on the Kabbie Raider & the Ravager, FF on the Reapers, extra LGs on the Wracks (The Grots had one, I forgot to write it in) and 48pts to play with.

Regarding NS and/or FF on the 3 Wyches, 2 Wracks and Grots; Since they're planning on powering up into the opponent's face hole turn 1, would you say the upgrades are really worth the points? They'll have a better jink, and even Tau can't strip the cover off more than two or three vehicles. I understand the idea of dumping troops and having my vehicles back off, but by that point at least a few will be craters. What's your experience?

One reason I've got the dissies on the Ravager is to deal with TEQ; a bunch of terminators/centurions in my meta (My best bud plays DA, and usually fields at least two units of DSing termies). The rest of my AT consists of Reaver Blasters, Reapers, and 3 hay-wyches. I feel like that would be enough, but again I've only played 4 or 5 games as DE thus far.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/02 18:17:00


-I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Rock hard, ride free, and hold the heathen hammer high!
"Orkses is never beaten in battle; if we win, we win, if we die, we died fightin' so it doesn't count, and if we leg it, we always come back for anuvver go, see?"
God, I'd love to shunt the Hulk into the Eye of Terror and see what comes out. -Reiner
"Sons of the Last Breath"
"Host of Shattered Purity"
"Kabal of the Dying Sun, Cult of Marrow Excised, Coven of Lambent Hunger" 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





The Twilight Zone

You bring up a ton of valid points. I had no idea the land raider achielles ignored lance! Makes sense that you would want alternative AT, but remember a single squad of wytches or some decent blasts from your reapers should wreck them.

All the flickerfields may be overkill-your right to point that out. I just said to bring them in case tau ignore your cover and wreck your raiders. The whole thing about investing in paper planes is a good question, with no one answer. On one hand, your fancy tissue paper ships will go down to just about anything, better to not invest. On the other hand, the units inside are just as weak, and many require making it to the party in the first place. A squad of haywitches on foot in your backfield...worthless.

I believe in defensive upgrades so you at least get a chance to make it. It also gives you the ability to use the gunboat and have the units inside just chill. Take haywitches-good if a tank shows up needing the grenades, otherwise they are just scoring bodies with some CC ability(emphasis on SOME). In that case you want the venom as a dual cannon gunboat and night shields are critical to that effect. The kabbie gunboat wants to get close, sure. However, it gets close to rapid fire dakka that can dakka back. The night shields mean no easy bolter spam to bring your plane down(your kabbies are next)Your enemies are mostly marines and tau, both have a lot of 3' or less shooting. Marines have las/missiles for 4', but otherwise your night shields give you breathing room against those nasty guns. Critical for your gunships(including your ravager)
Flickerfields are mostly for ignore cover tau(poison the ever living F**K out of the pathfinders and anything with a markerlight ASAP) but also help in assault. They are also insurance if you get second turn and don't have jink saves rolling. Night shields are also 1st turn defense forcing your opponent that much closer(for you to counterattack with your speed). Both may also stop an explosion, which will kill the majority of the models inside(~80% wytches/kabbies)

Despite my nice monologue about the defensive upgrades, nothing comes free. Points spent here could just be more stuff on the board. Find the balance for your playstyle and needs. Night shields are more important than flickers for the most part.

You bring up the dissie ravager for terminators, but lances are good at killing terminators as well. For centaurions, the lances can instakill and with no invul save only cover it can be an easy pop. For the deathwing, it depends on what kind of terminators your up against. Dissie ravagers are still not bad, and will keep your opponent honest. If your expecting assault terminators deep striking near your cool stuff, consider torment grenade launchers on the heavies(and maybe urien's raider). Forcing a morale check to charge stops 1 in 6 charges with Ld10, nothing great but it could make a game. Combined with speed of your skimmers the test+distance can buy you a turn. The leadership debuff is nice if you start popping off a few and you might have them break. Not a big deal with marines since they have ATSKNF. Just food for thought.

EDIT- I googled the achellies, and wow those have some nasty guns. The thunderfire should bounce off your skimmers good enough, but it will murder any footslogger in the open. Against the multi meltas the night shields are a godsend to limit both max range and range for melta dice.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/03 06:21:39


The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden  
   
Made in ca
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






Yeah man, achilles raiders are something for us to fear. Between the thunderfire cannon and ignores lance, they spell our DOOM. The only saving grace is that they're 300+ points.
... I think he's fielding two+ of them tomorrow.

I got to experience melta vs night-shield the other day, and managed to survive deep-strike melta TAC squads on my ravagers for 1 turn which was nice because he forgot about the NS affecting melta range. Now he's planning on DSing closer, which is bad news because drop pods basically don't mishap. As for the wyches, only issue is making sure they actually make it close enough to do their job. I'm sure once he finds out what I'm bringing he'll focus them down asap. With the Thundefire cannons, NS won't help all that much either.

Definitely going to invest in FF vs Tau, and yeah markerlights are definitely a priority target. Not getting 2nd turn is definitely something I'm scared of, 'cause there isn't enough LOS blocking terrain around here (working on that). Good call on NS forcing them closer to make it easier to charge; didn't think of that.

Lances don't instagib Centurions. They're T5 =( The trade off is lances can target anything, while dissies aren't so useful against vehicles. As far as having his units break and run, marines are ATSKNF and his termies are Inner Circle (fearless). Works against Smurfs & other chapters, but not DA. So I'm hoping that dissie ravager will prove useful against melta-drop, as long as it survives.

One serious concern is deployment. I'm playing DA again tomorrow. I can't really castle, 'cause he'll bring Whirlwinds & the Thunderfire. But if I spread out, I can't slice pieces of his army out one at a time.
In your experience, what should I keep in consideration when deploying?

-I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Rock hard, ride free, and hold the heathen hammer high!
"Orkses is never beaten in battle; if we win, we win, if we die, we died fightin' so it doesn't count, and if we leg it, we always come back for anuvver go, see?"
God, I'd love to shunt the Hulk into the Eye of Terror and see what comes out. -Reiner
"Sons of the Last Breath"
"Host of Shattered Purity"
"Kabal of the Dying Sun, Cult of Marrow Excised, Coven of Lambent Hunger" 
   
 
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