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Hey guys. Just starting up warhammer season and I've crafted myself a dark eldar/eldar seer council. I played a game last night - and as rookies we were confused how low I can actually get the the cover save with the unit.

From my understanding:

Jink +1 save which makes the Jetbikes +5
Shrouded warlock power makes it +4
Seatlh from the baron makes it +3
A moving flat out makes it +2
Adding fortune puts it to 2++

Is this correct?

Some people quote positioning the baron in the front but we can't figure out why. Also does the jetbike itself grant a 3+ armor save?

Thanks, lots of questions to ensue.

Jink's base 5+ if you've moved. If you add Stealth and Shrouded you'd get 2+ already, moving "flat-out" (that's for vehicles though) would get the jink save to 4+, but it would still get you a 2+ .
The eldar jetbike's effects are spelled out clearly in the codex in the wargear section, and do grant a 3+ armor save.

Eclipseone wrote:
Hey guys. Just starting up warhammer season and I've crafted myself a dark eldar/eldar seer council. I played a game last night - and as rookies we were confused how low I can actually get the the cover save with the unit.

From my understanding:

Jink +1 save which makes the Jetbikes +5
Shrouded warlock power makes it +4
Seatlh from the baron makes it +3
A moving flat out makes it +2
Adding fortune puts it to 2++

Is this correct?

Some people quote positioning the baron in the front but we can't figure out why. Also does the jetbike itself grant a 3+ armor save?

Thanks, lots of questions to ensue.

Right some confusion here. Jink gives you a 5+ cover save, stealth improves that to 4+. Shrouded improves that to 2+. So you don't have to turbo boost to get 2+ cover. When people refer to 2++ saves they mean 2+ Invulnerable saves not a reroll. Fortune does not make the cover save invulnerable just gives you a reroll. The reason to put the baron at the front is he can soak ignores cover wounds and just pass back with look out Sir any non-cover ignoring shots. Eldar jet bikes give you an armour it is listed in the codex the most common power house ignore cover weapons are AP3 so look into protect/jinx on a Warlock too (if you roll that golden 4 of course).

Hope this helps.

Great info. Is cover not better than an invulnerable save with respect to this unit and 2+? Ie: ap 1 and 2 weapons can always be saved with cover?

No, cover is not "better" than an invulnerable save, as very few weapons ignore invulnerable saves while quite a few ignore coversaves. In this instance though you'll still use your 2+ cover most of the time.

So with that said, sorry I'm a rookie.. With the council at 2+, and I'm shot with ap3 weapons I roll the 2+, with ap2 weapons I roll the 4+ invulnerable?

Only things with the ignore cover special rule, or things that use flamer templates ignore your cover. Otherwise treat it exactly like an invulnerable save, its not ignored by any AP but you don't get it in combat. So the ONLY time you will use your Invulnerable save is when you are shot by something that ignores cover and is AP 3, the main example being a Heldrake Baleflamer. Then you would use your invulnerable. Its a major point of using the best save available, so a jetbike with jink (5+), stealth (4+) from the Baron, and Conceal from warlock(2+), has a 2+ cover/3+ armour from bike/4+ invul from rune armour. You use the best available, and you only use a weaker one if the shot ignores ones before it.

A Save is a Save, but some saves can be negated.

In general..
Invulnerable saves cannot be negated.
Armor saves and only armor saves are negated by AP Values.
Cover saves can only be ignored by things that ignore cover, flame templates, or things with a special rule.

Bike grants a 3+ Armor Save.
Jink Grants a 5+ Cover save which can be improved by +1(Stealth) and +2(Shourding) for a total of a 2+ Cover save.
So he has a 3+ Armor Save and a 2+ Cover Save.
A Farseer on a bike has a 3+ Armor Save, a 2+ Cover Save, and a 4++ Invulnerable Save.

You always take your best save and can only take one save even if you have Armor, Cover, and Invulnerable.

So a bike is hit by a Bolter, AP5 and gets to take his best save, a 2+ Cover save.
So a bike is hit by a Flamer, AP5 but ignores cover and gets to take his best remaining save, a 3+ Armor.
So a bike is hit by a Helldrake's Baleflamer, AP3 and ignores cover, the bike gets no save.
A Farseer on a bike hit by a Baleflamer, AP3 and Ignores cover so he doesn't get his 2+ Cover, or his 3+ Armor, but he gets his 4++ Invulverable Save.

Hope that helps a bit.