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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 12:38:16
Subject: Champions of Chaos Question
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Morphing Obliterator
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If a chaos marine character is fighting a challenge against an opponent of his own initiative step, and they kill eachother, would the chaos character get to make a roll on the chaos boon table before dying?
If yes, this could potentially allow the character to survive the challenge after all if he rolls Bloated (+1 Wound) or Dark Apotheosis (turns into a Daemon Prince).
Common sense I guess would dictate no, but it would be super cool if the chaos gods could bring their champions back from the dead in this way during the battle!
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Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 12:59:33
Subject: Re:Champions of Chaos Question
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Armageddon, Pry System, Armageddon Sector, Armageddon Sub-sector, Segmentum Solar.
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Hmm tough call. The effect is applied imediatly but the champion died at the same time so there is technically no one to apply the effect to. Until it's faq'd I'm going with no, as the champion dies at the same time the boon is granted.
though nothing is stopping you from discussing this outside chance if survival with your opponent.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 13:02:51
Subject: Champions of Chaos Question
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
Battle Barge Impossible Fortress
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That would be awesome.. I've rolled bloated a few times when I really needed it from Boon of Mutation. Bausk is right, though
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 13:07:27
Subject: Re:Champions of Chaos Question
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Armageddon, Pry System, Armageddon Sector, Armageddon Sub-sector, Segmentum Solar.
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Frankly as much as its not rae I'm inclined to play it this way with my gaming group. it's very themed and sounds fun. even rolling up spawndom would save them lol
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 13:09:22
Subject: Champions of Chaos Question
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Morphing Obliterator
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I think I will bring this up with my group next time I play.
After all, it's more fun to do it this way and there is only 2 or 3 results (+ 1 Wound, Prince & Spawn) that would actually make a difference.
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Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 13:37:03
Subject: Champions of Chaos Question
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard
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Chaos champion says roll immediately. That's very clear guidance, after the other model looses it's last wound you roll.
It is possible to go back to full wounds, spawn or daemon prince and keep on truckin'.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 13:47:20
Subject: Champions of Chaos Question
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Morphing Obliterator
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That's true, hopefully it will make the debate easier to go in my favour as the rule does say immediately!
I would laugh so hard if my supposedly dead character went back up to full wounds or turned into a prince instead! I would laugh even harder if he was spawned.
I really should get myself a spare daemon prince and a couple of spawn for when this happens.
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Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 14:15:39
Subject: Champions of Chaos Question
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The Hive Mind
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liturgies of blood wrote:Chaos champion says roll immediately. That's very clear guidance, after the other model looses it's last wound you roll.
It is possible to go back to full wounds, spawn or daemon prince and keep on truckin'.
p15 wrote:Next, allocate an unsaved Wound to the enemy model closest to the firing unit. Reduce that model's Wounds by 1. If the model is reduced to 0 Wounds, remove it as a casualty.
p25 wrote:Once a model has a Wound allocated to it, you must continue to allocate Wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the Wound pool is empty.
The models are removed as a casualty, and then you would roll. We know this because you must remove the model when it hits 0 wounds and both models hit 0 wounds at the same time. Both models are removed. Now you have killed an enemy character (because he was removed) but your model doesn't exist to make a roll.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 14:16:33
Subject: Champions of Chaos Question
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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liturgies of blood wrote:Chaos champion says roll immediately. That's very clear guidance, after the other model looses it's last wound you roll.
The thing is, the Chaos champion will also have lost his last would and been removed at the same time as the enemy was (same initiative step, simultaneous action). So when you roll on the chart, the Chaos character is already removed from play.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 22:43:27
Subject: Re:Champions of Chaos Question
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Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest
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This is mainly answered by page 3, emphasis mine:
"If at any point, a model's Strength, Toughness or Wounds are reduced to 0, it is removed from play as a casualty."
Because the attacks are made simultaneously, your Chaos Champion is reduced to 0 Wounds at the step immediately before you perform the Boon roll. It's best not to think of the two models attacking as two separate instances that the Boon can interrupt, but as one single action with different sub-parts that cannot be interrupted. In other words:
1) Resolve both models' Attacks and reduce both models to 0 Wounds as a result.
2) Perform the Boon roll.
There can be no argument here - the Attacks are resolved at the same Initiative step, if there were any way of interrupting, then it would be at a point before the opponent is reduced to 0 Wounds as well, so no Boon roll at all.
The rule on page 3 doesn't say "immediately" - so it could be argued that you can immediately make that Boon roll. However, the results are inconsequential. Even if you roll that extra Wound - the model was reduced to 0 Wounds, *at any point*. So you still have to remove it as a casualty. And before someone says "but the Prince or Spawn can still get on the table" - the Dark Apotheosis and Spawn results don't use the word "immediately" either.
Note that other "return to play" rules get around this by having wording like Saint Celestine's, Commissar Yarrick's or Resurrection Protocols, where you're either told *not* to remove the model, you're told to bring it back into play, or you use a token to represent the previous model. The Boon table carries no such get-out clause.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 22:45:35
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 22:53:29
Subject: Champions of Chaos Question
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard
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It seems I was well wrong.
It might just have been my love for the idea of Kharn and Lucius going toe to toe, killing one another and having them keep going due to apotheosis or regaining wounds.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 02:25:42
Subject: Re:Champions of Chaos Question
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Armageddon, Pry System, Armageddon Sector, Armageddon Sub-sector, Segmentum Solar.
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While its clear that it doesn't work strict raw it may be worth the effort of a repost in the suggested rules section for fun.
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