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A platoon commanded by Al'Rahem must outflank

Sabre Weapons platforms (which can be taken in place of heavy weapons teams) are immobile once deployed.

Someone puts combines these two elements (A platoon lead by Al'Rahem that includes Sabre Weapons platforms)

What happens?

Ask FW. If I had to make a ruling I'd say you can't take them.

Thanks rigeld, i know there's no RAW to cover this, so it's more a HIWPI than anything.

i need to make a call and i thought i'd gather up opinions 1st, just to see where people's heads were on the topic

rigeld2 wrote:
Ask FW. If I had to make a ruling I'd say you can't take them.

The Sabre platforms are Immobile. Per the reserve rules, if kept in reserves it must Deep Strike.

I see this as the more advanced rule.

But they are not permitted to Deep Strike; they must Outflank.

You'd have them DS in when the platoon becomes available? interesting

rigeld2 wrote:
But they are not permitted to Deep Strike; they must Outflank.

They must both Deep Strike and Outflank.

Got it, lets use the FAQ for precedent!

OK, so the closest scenario similar to this is "Send in the Next Wave" v "Stalk the Enemy". Let's see what GW has to say.

Q: If an Imperial Guard army includes both Captain Al’Rahem
and Commander Chenkov, and a unit of Conscripts that is part of
Al’Rahem’s Infantry Platoon has purchased Commander Chenkov’s
‘Send in the Next Wave’ upgrade, does it re- enter play using
Outflank as per Captain Al’Rahem’s ‘Stalk the Enemy’ or move on
from the player’s board edge, as per Commander Chenkov’s ‘Send
in the Next Wave’? (p64/65).
A: In this instance, neither rule takes precedence – therefore
simply roll a dice for which rule applies as per ‘The Most
Important Rule’ on page 4 of the Warhammer 40,000
Rulebook.

Well, that was less then helpful.

I guess we could apply the same logic here. Roll off. If Deep Strike wins they deploy via DS. If Outflank wins they stay in reserve as they are immobile.

So a 50/50 shot of never deploying?

Oh, and to OP, I voted "Other" they arrive via Deep Strike as per the rules for permanently immobile units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
So a 50/50 shot of never deploying?

The question is which rule is more advanced - the all units in the platoon must outflank, or a permanently immobile unit must DS?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK. Strike all my arguing.

The unit cannot be moved after they are deployed. So they walk on from the board edge and cannot move for the rest of the game.

My first thought would be that the platforms would attempt to outflank with the platoon but, since they are immobile, be destroyed since they cannot move the minimum distance required to be fully on the board. Although I'm not entirely sure they are 'immobile' until they are actually on the board, so Happyjew's assessment of stopping immediately after moving on from the board edge could also be viable.

I suppose the fluffy logic would be that they were 'packed up' and immediately deployed once Al Rahem rolled in from the board edge with his lads. RAW doesn't seem very clear at all.

DoW

 Happyjew wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK. Strike all my arguing.

The unit cannot be moved after they are deployed. So they walk on from the board edge and cannot move for the rest of the game.

I'm not sure this would actually work, though, since arriving from reserve doesn't count as "deploying." And if they're immobile, they certainly cannot move in from reserve in any other way than DS. But if they don't have the DS rule, and cannot be placed in DS reserve, then they can't do that!

I'm not sure what's so bad about this simply being an illegal list choice. I can't take Paladins as Elites once I have Draigo in my army. I can't take a Tzeentch DP as an HQ once I have Fateweaver. Some things just don't work together.

Page 124 gives you the answer: a model whose maximum move is not sufficient to move onto the table (and "may not move" is an insufficient maximum move) is placed on the table edge and can not move/shoot/run/assault that turn. Since there is no conflict with Al'Rahem's rule they will outflank as normal. The guns will fail to move sufficiently to enter the table and suffer the penalty, while the crew models walk on as usual and act normally. Whether or not you want to put Sabre units in the platoon and pay that price is up to you.

The rule about immobile units arriving by deep strike does not apply because it only applies to immobile UNITS. Only the guns in a Sabre unit are immobile, the unit itself is artillery and the crew models may move normally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
But if they don't have the DS rule, and cannot be placed in DS reserve, then they can't do that!

The rule for immobile reserves does not require the unit to have the deep strike rule already, it effectively grants it to them for this special situation.

I'm not sure what's so bad about this simply being an illegal list choice.

It's bad because it isn't necessary. The rules function just fine without adding any special house rules about illegal list choices.

Other.
Yes you can take them in the unit, but since they cannot deploy they are immediately destroyed upon you making a successful reserves roll for the unit.

So my advice is not to take them with the unit.

They are only immobile once deployed, which is after they arrive from reserves.

Also, even if they where immobile to begin with, the rules tell you how to deploy them in situations where they can not move completely onto the table and it is not 'remove as casualty.'

So, I'm away from my books at the moment (and not sure if this is even in there). When is a unit deployed (when coming in from reserves)? Is it after it completes its move, or once it is fully on the table?