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Hi Dakka. I'm a casual 40k player but long term serious fantasy player. And I a running in to some difficulty comprehending how "Psyker" abilities work. I have a good grip of fantasy and the winds of magic and relm of chaos interaction. However I keep getting corrected that this is very different in 40k.

As I have just started my first ever game of "Rouge Trader" and ended up as a astropath I am. Ow very curious how this interaction works.
How does a Psyker cast? How do they learn abilities or are they just born with them? Can anyone learn? Can a Psyker experiment/improvise?

How does the warp as a magic source/relm of chaos interact with the world and the one using it?

It was explained to me that the psychic abilities were like a gun, good for one a only one purpose. Unlike magic which you could assume a fire wizard could "tone down a spell" or improvise to say light a small fire versus launch a fireball. In 40k a Psyker only knows trick a and it can not be altered. (Like using a bolter to light your cigarette).

Please help explain to me the theoretical power of the warp and psykers.

A psyker does not "cast" spells in the sense that your typical fantasy Wizard does. The psyker requires no physical spell components, no chanting funny words, no waving his hands in strange ways. He just thinks about it, and it happens.

Now, if the Psyker wants to put on a little bit of a show, and make a pinching gesture in the air while he strangles someone with telekinetic force from across the room, he can... but he's not required to.

A psyker is, well, it's someone with psychic powers. They have the genetic ability to channel energy from the Warp through their minds and make their thoughts become reality. In the sense that it is a game mechanic, Psykers are allowed to choose what form these thoughts take from the various tables presented in the book, and are usually grouped into Disciplines (think of these as schools of magic), in which the powers provided share common themes.

Disciplines include things like Pyromancy, Telepathy, Telekinesis, etc. The powers in each Discipline will be related to the theme of that Discipline.

Psykers are born, not made. While every human being (save those with the Pariah gene) have the *possibility* of expressing Psychic ability, only one in a million (maybe fewer) actually do. Of these rare few, the majority are collected by the Inquisition and shipped to Holy Terra aboard the Black Ships. En route, and once upon Terra, they are put through grueling tests that judge their strength of spirit, mind and character. Those who are judged too weak are fed to the Golden Throne, to the tune of 1000 souls a day. Those who pass the tests, but barely, become Astropaths, which are basically a type of Telepath that can transmit and receive thought-signals across vast, interstellar distances. They are the long-range communications system of the Imperium. Above Astropaths are all the other kinds of Psykers, which are used by all manner of organizations within the Imperium.

All of the Psykers that "graduate" from Terra are considered to be soul-bound to the God-Emperor, which affords a measure of protection from having a Daemon tear its way into realspace through your brain. Those psykers who are not found by the Inquisition... most of them die this way. Suffer not the witch to live.

Psykers learn new powers and abilities by meditating. They have no need for spellbooks or grimoires. They might learn new ways to unlock the powers of their mind by reading philosophical treatises penned by other Psykers, as such works guide their minds into new avenues of thought, but such things are not required. A Psyker's power is entirely in-born.

Psychic Powers are generally not as "fine tuneable" as a wizard's spells are, though this is not entirely true. The super-duper Psychic Powers, like Holocaust, can devastate an entire hab-block with a thought. There are dozens and dozens of minor psychic powers, though, that permit things like creating light, healing minor injuries, calling animals to you, all sorts of little tricks like that.


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... oh, and just because you graduated doesn't mean that you are forever free of the risk of Daemonic Possession. Daemons prey upon the souls of psykers, shining more brightly in the Warp than those of regular people. When manifesting his powers, a Psyker might go a bit overboard, and the raw power of the Warp spills into realspace, provoking all kinds of weird effects (sudden rainstorms indoors, statues weeping blood, reversed gravity, daemons suddenly manifesting and going on a rampage.... there's a lot of Perils of the Warp to deal with...).

These sorts of events are what get most psykers killed, because the bulk of humanity in the Imperium hates and fears psykers as being witches, sorcerers, daemon-spawn and mutants. Many psykers are burned at the stake, often by agents of the Inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy.

What he said. Also, unlike the Winds of Magic emanating from a single place on the planet, the Warp suffuses and underlies all of the 40k universe. That being said, there is are still places where the separation between the physical universe and the Empyrean is... thinner.

A few corrections. Only astropaths stand before the Emperor and become soul-bound, the act of which permanently blinds the psyker.

You seem to be confusing the psychic power system in Rogue Trader with the one from Dark Heresy, the two of which deal with very different types of psykers. The former are astropaths, whereas the latter are sanctioned psykers.

More powerful psykers are instead given extremely intense training while on the Black Ships. Success in this training earns them a sanctioning brand that identifies them as both a psyker, and one considered strong enough to protect themselves.

Sanctioned psykers have far more versatility in their psychic abilities than an astropath, but the act of soul-binding is a much stronger form of protection. Thus, as an astropath, your abilities are strongly focused on communication, divination, and mind-control, rather than body manipulation or throwing around warp fire. In general, astropaths are respected, if avoided, members of society. Sanctioned psykers, on the other hand, tend to be extremely feared by common people.

While anyone technically can use psychic powers, the act of doing so when you're not born as a psyker will almost always involve dealing with tne entities of the warp to make pacts for power. This is considered sorcery and unlike psykers, which have all sorts of constraints on them, sorcery is outright banned.

Sorcery is also, specifically, not psychic power, though it is channeling the Warp. In the constraints of the game, a non-Psyker can make use of Sorcery, though it is more-typical fantasy magic use, requiring chanting, material components, waving your hands about, etc.

More powerful psykers are given that training once they're proven to be more powerful. If they don't pass those first tests, they're still Emperor-food.

It is also noted that the group which trains the Sanctioned Psykers (Adeptus Astra Telepathica and the Scholastia Psykana) is housed in the City of Sight, which is part of the Imperial Palace on Terra. It is implied that all Psykers who will become sanctioned, by whatever means they are, will make the journey to Terra. This makes sense, though, as any Psyker who is judged too weak to become even an Astropath is going to be fed to the Throne. The Black Ships are as much a take-out delivery service as they are a transport.

Yeah, so it sounds much like I feared wher psychic powers really are like talents and tricks. Something which while a neat innate ability, isn't really anything that can be done better, safer and easier with technology.

Perhaps it's just a beef I am having with the GM scenario but as an astropath I really feel like a super staticy human walkytalky in a game where everyone has working walkytalkies which don't come with the risk of a demon crawling out of your brain.

I guess it's that in this world of bolt guns or even hand held las cannons (literally a member of the group has one) a psyker is kind of worse than useless, abilities struggle to keep up with a simple flash bang, but come with the requirement of spending hundreds and hundreds of xp, only to still have it be less reliable, shorter range, and more self destructive than its (no xp cost) tech equivalent. At least a las cannon could be used to pro open a door... Were as the rigidity of psychic abilities mean they can't be improvised to a different role.

It seems like with such a rigid and fairly limited functionality the imperium wouldn't even bother with psykers. Why bther even training them? The signals they send seem to be the equivalent (range and time) of good old fashioned imperial technology. What role do the fill (besides feeding the emperor) that imperial technology can't do more reliably?

Messages can't be sent between star systems in any meaningful time frame without astropaths. If your GM is allowing interstellar communication the way Star Trek does it, then that's not how things work in 40k. Radio communication would take hundreds, if not thousands of years to reach its destination.

That said, Rogue Trader really isn't a game about a couple of guys with guns bashing down doors. You're all insanely wealthy with connections to dozens of different Imperial organizations, noble houses, and planetary corporations, with a massive starship run by tens of thousands of people as well as various holdings that might require upkeep, or be at risk from rival factions or houses. As an astropath, you shouldn't be some powerhouse killing machine. You should be probing enemy ships, locating which of a planet's dozen different archaeological sites are real xenos ruins as opposed to the local barbarian hordes, interrogating prisoners as you read their minds, keeping tabs on all the happenings back in the rogue trader's holdings and be the first to know if something might threaten them.

In fact, the supplement The Navis Primer has a bunch of new shipboard actions for astropaths to take during ship combat. Things like taking control of an enemy ship's turret, causing fires to spark up on nearby ships, deflecting an incoming shot. Some pretty cool stuff. But I will say that for someone not familiar with 40k, playing an Astropath is going to be really hard.

 Castitas wrote:
Yeah, so it sounds much like I feared wher psychic powers really are like talents and tricks. Something which while a neat innate ability, isn't really anything that can be done better, safer and easier with technology.

Use your Astropaths powers at the Fettered level.

Now, at the cost of using your powers at a Psy Rating half your normal rating, you can use any power with absolutely no chance of psychic phenomena.


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 Psienesis wrote:
Sorcery is also, specifically, not psychic power, though it is channeling the Warp. In the constraints of the game, a non-Psyker can make use of Sorcery, though it is more-typical fantasy magic use, requiring chanting, material components, waving your hands about, etc

Psykers can use sorcery to further the power of their innate abilities though. The most powerful psykers within the canon, the likes of Magnus the Red, Malcador the Sigillite, Grey Knights, Thousand Sons in general, and maybe even the Emperor himself, were also sorcerers.

I suppose maybe I should ask more in game advise.

For example last session, the "firefight" took place over 200+ meters. As beginning level characters my Psyker was lvl 2 meaning his two abilities (mind reading and scream) had 2 meter and 10 meter ranges unfettered. While say everyone else with bolsters/las cannons obviously had much more effective range. Additionally psykic damage turns out to be all but useless against orks anyways.

Once again perhaps this may be a mechanism of the GM but the character pretty much becomes the mascot monkey, who doesn't participate in the game. Outside of the ocasional message relay to someone who forgot their microbead ship board...

Any advice on how to make an astropath something other than a PC radio? I'm considering just stopping the progression of powers and trying to up BS instead and just find a bolter to learn how to use.

I'd really appreciate advice, I like the character but it's really no fun to only relay what one player says to another for the entire session.

Being a psyker does not give you the excuse to not bolster some of your combat abilities, and indeed non-combat abilities.

In DH, my first psyker is also a fair gunman, and a very capable scholar and tech user, and my second was a pretty powerful melee beatstick and indeed a Templar Calix, as well as having some rudimentary lore abilities and interrogation, and probably some other gak I forget.

Psykers start off fairly weak, but don't worry, soon you'll be making the other party members feel inadequate compared to you.

My Only War group has only ever had 1 Psyker. After multiple attempts to take down the enemy (to no avail) we decided to have him Push as far as he could. Well...long story short we now have a permanent back up plan - Operation Nuke the Psyker...

 Void__Dragon wrote:



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 Psienesis wrote:
Sorcery is also, specifically, not psychic power, though it is channeling the Warp. In the constraints of the game, a non-Psyker can make use of Sorcery, though it is more-typical fantasy magic use, requiring chanting, material components, waving your hands about, etc

Psykers can use sorcery to further the power of their innate abilities though. The most powerful psykers within the canon, the likes of Magnus the Red, Malcador the Sigillite, Grey Knights, Thousand Sons in general, and maybe even the Emperor himself, were also sorcerers.

Well, yes, but that was getting a bit too far into the nitty-gritty of the game for the purposes of this thread. I mean, personally, Im not a fan of how they structured that, but I think DH's Sorcery rules are very much tacked-on without much thought put behind them, but I also feel the same way about a lot of their psychic powers. They strike me as poorly play-tested, especially with the ones that permit people to land shots with near impunity, re-rolls to dodge, or ignore most sources of damage. But I digress....

For example last session, the "firefight" took place over 200+ meters. As beginning level characters my Psyker was lvl 2 meaning his two abilities (mind reading and scream) had 2 meter and 10 meter ranges unfettered. While say everyone else with bolsters/las cannons obviously had much more effective range. Additionally psykic damage turns out to be all but useless against orks anyways.

You're an Astropath, not a city-shattering Primaris Psyker. Orks at 200 meters? Hose them with a bolter or a multi-las. Orks also suffer greatly from those psychic powers that are designed to deal direct damage, like Firebolt, Holocaust, Constrict and Blood Boil... though I don't recall, off hand, if these are powers available to the RT Psyker classes, or are just present in DH.

Being a Psyker is not like being a Wizard in another RPG where the party regards you as being a bucket of spells and few hit-points. A Psyker is a character gifted/cursed with very special powers... but having those powers is no excuse to ignore the rest of his/her life and education. Somewhere along the line, you're going to take up some hobbies, maybe learn how to defend yourself with a laspistol, or that archaeotech plasmagun you were granted on your 15th birthday by the Patriarch of the Rogue Trader dynasty you are indentured to. Are they out of range of Scream? No worries, this assault cannon can roar...

Any advice on how to make an astropath something other than a PC radio? I'm considering just stopping the progression of powers and trying to up BS instead and just find a bolter to learn how to use.

Well... an Astropath *is* a radio. It's what they do. This is what makes them a *required* aspect of the crew on any vessel... the Imperium is not capable of performing interstellar communications without Astropaths. Getting around this ties into my previous statement: learn to do other things. Look into what options for powers the Astropath class provides you, what other Talents and Skills you can buy. I know that, in my DH games, the Psyker's psychic powers are useful, but just as often, it is the mundane skills like the various Forbidden Lore and Scholastic Lores, as well as skills like Psyniscience, that come into play.

I'd also recommend talking to your GM about not making everything combat-based. Astropaths are very interesting social classes, but if you're only going to be fighting orks, then I'd start looking into some more heretical powers to assist more directly. A few corruption points never hurt anyone.

 Psienesis wrote:


Well, yes, but that was getting a bit too far into the nitty-gritty of the game for the purposes of this thread. I mean, personally, Im not a fan of how they structured that, but I think DH's Sorcery rules are very much tacked-on without much thought put behind them,

Okay, and? I was talking from a fluff perspective, sorcery and psychic power compliment each other.

Also yeah, the sorcery in DH at least is pretty lame. I considered having my character become a sorcerer due to character development I don't feel like elaborating on in here, but when I actually looked at the powers and how it worked I decided against it.

but I also feel the same way about a lot of their psychic powers. They strike me as poorly play-tested, especially with the ones that permit people to land shots with near impunity, re-rolls to dodge, or ignore most sources of damage. But I digress....

Psykers are purposely overpowered. In 40k, a competent psyker can punch far above the weight class of most humans. Like exploding an Ork Warboss' skull for example (Gods I love Soul Killer).

Sometimes it gets too far though. Like with Fling. Dear gods, Fling... I got bored one night and calculated what my Telekine's damage with Fling would be by the time he is Psy Rating 10, and on average, he'd be doing enough damage to one-shot a Bloodthirster.

You're an Astropath, not a city-shattering Primaris Psyker.

Yeah, overall, the psychic powers in RT are not quite as destructive and powerful as DH powers. You can still be a psychic badass though.

In telepathy alone, the RT mental reading ability is far better, being ranged rather than based off touch (I hate DH's version of Mind Probe), and with Mind Scan their reach for Mind Probe could extend to over 250 meters, 2,500 with Mind's Eye. The Astropath gets IIRC all the mental domination powers the Sanctioned psyker in DH gets, as well as cool stuff like Dominate that can be used from kilometers away, or the ability to outright reprogram the minds of others.

The removal of Biomancy and Pyromancy did take away a lot of your options though.

Telepathy in RT is great however. Castitas, I believe what you are suffering from is Linear Fighters, Quadratic Wizards. My first DH psyker had to settle with sitting behind a box and spamming Spasm during the first couple of sessions.

Starting off, the combat classes will outshine you in, well, combat. But over time, you will catch up and even in some cases exceed them at encounters, and they will be far more utilitarian outside of combat, being excellent at retrieving information, acting as lookouts, having access to knowledge rolls most other careers don't get, and of course acting as a long range radio. And as Psienesis and I have said, being a psyker is no excuse to not be self-sufficient in more mundane combat situations as well, though don't expect to be as good at the Arch-Militant or other heavily combat-based classes (Say, an Ork Freeboota? ). It's simply not your role.

Well, fluff perspective from DH, anyway. Not so sure that's an established baseline in the rest of 40K, where sorcery strikes me more as the thing that non-Psykers do to try to be like Psykers, and which Psykers learn because it lets them do things for which they have no Psychic Power. Pretty sure there's not a Psychic Power called "Summon Bloodthirster Because You Wanted To, Not Because You Fethed Up".

I can't really speak to the Astropath's specific abilities in RT. I own the books, but my local group has never expressed much interest in playing it. They much prefer the grittiness of core DH, possibly because a lot of my group are older gamers, and aren't so keen on the bolter-porn of Deathwatch or the massive sums of money being thrown about in RT. Trying to convince them to play Only War, and am slowly bringing them around.

*However*, having seen what a Psyker can do in DH with no direct-damage abilities (he's a Diviner), they can still be pretty badass in combat... eventually. In the early days of a character's life, though, they simply don't have the talent buys to have the power to be all ass-kicky. That comes later.