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Let me give you guys a bit of backstory on this:

I am new to Wh40k within the last 5 years or so. I used to play all the time but before those 5 years I played in my friends basement for years.. all the damn time. So I don't feel "new" to this game but certainly to 6th edition. My aspirations are to travel and play in tournaments everywhere I can. My job allows me that mobility and the freetime so I want to give said time and energy to one of my absolute loves (wh40k).

Specific questions:

1. Not sure on how psychic powers work for the Flyrants. All the bat reps I watch have no mention of "leech essence" or anything really.. it's always "iron arm" and stuff like that. So advice / education here would be nice <3

2. Ymgarl or normal stealers with broodlord? I really like the dormant ability and beefier stealers but challenges with the BL seem super powerful as well. My idea with genestealers here is a behind enemy lines hit squad capable of striking important targets or tying up a unit or two while my units get into position. Also some support for the Doom seems ok.

3. My army potentially doesn't field very many units but then it could potentially field A LOT depending on the Tervigons. Is this a point of concern? Do I ditch one of the Tervigons and go with a huge swarm of 'gants or gargoyles?

4. I love the Swarmlord. Probably my favorite unit but without ironarm his toughness/lack of invul save means he can be squishy unless I get him a lot of cover.. work around for this or roll the dice?



HQ: Flyrants x2 : twin linked devourers w/ brainleech / leech essence and psychic scream - 245 points x2 for 490 pts

Infantry: Tervigon w/ Catylst x3 w/ 10 termagants 525 pts + 150 for 675 pts

Elite: Doom w/ spore - 140 pts
Hive Guard x2 - 100 pts
Ymgarl x9 - 207 pts

Heavy Support: 3x biovore - 135 pts



I appreciate all the help and ideas!

Hey Geoff!

Happy to help, I am a long time Nid player.

1.) The psychic powers you see people using today are those form the main rule book. The powers in the Nid codex and specific to them and until their book gets updated for 6th edition (rumored to be happening soon) they use a mix of old and new rules.

So, you can choose to use the Nid rules or the book rules, but not both. Almost everyone opts to use the book powers as they are typically superior. Iron Arm specifically is amazing for Nids as it boosts their toughness, strength and most importantly, provides Eternal Warrior. It makes their Big Bugs combat juggernauts.

2.) Ymgarls are more of a psychological unit to screw the other guy's deployment and movement up. IME, they rarely deliver a killing blow these days due to over-watch and such. They are very good, though.

I prefer the more flexible and powerful Steelers with Broodlord as due to the Challenege rules, the Broodlord has become an absolute killer in one. His base pyschic powers make him deadly in a challenege, give him Poison, ScyTals and Implant Attack (instant death) and he is brutally good.

That said, you need neither unit. You can build a great list without them, they require a lot of skill to use well, but can be devastating when you do.

3.) Common wisdom says take 2 Tervigons or more. I typically take 1 with only Catalyst. Reason being is that stats say you only average 2 spawns per tervie before pooping out. The tervie doesn't contribute that much offensively and is not cheap. I run one in the backfield to provide snyapse and a very durable scoring unit. You can kit them up for combat though and have them go forward providing another threat.

4.) Swarmy is my man! I love the guy and he with Iron Arm is the last word in assault. He is the man. But as you noted, without it, he can be a liability due to his points cost and slow speed.

What you do is bring some back-up units to support him. Zoeys with Objuration Mechanicum help a lot as does FnP from Catalyst or Endurance. Basically if you take him, you need to have means built in to mitigate him pulling a gak hand of powers.

Played well though, he owns the middle of the table and no good player will come near him.

As for your list,

I run a Flyrant and Swarmy, but 2 Flyrants is great too.

3 Tervies is good, but if you go that route, kit them for assault too so that they can contribute if they all poop out too soon. Otherwise they are points wasted.

Doom in a sPod is auto-include.
Hive Guard rock.
Ymgarls are very good.

Biovores are, IMO, auto-include also. Too good not to take for what they bring.

Your list is solid as is, as I said, simple invest some more points into make at least some of the tervies more assault oriented and you are good to go.

1. Ah ok ty for clarifying this that makes a lot more sense and obviously I will be following the trend as the codex powers aren't THAT great and Iron Arm seems like a no brainer. I had heard November for the codex then someone told me that they had heard January but I can't fathom GW being dumb enough to miss the holiday season haha.

2. I will experiment with both ymgarl and brood+normal genestealers. I really like the idea of being able to feth with their deployment and tie them up with some sick melee. I figure the genestealers to be better than almost any other infantry choice and if they can gang up on a single bad ass that too should be fine I figure.

As far as NOT using them I totally hear you there. I figure if I don't use them it would be zoanthropes or gargoyles with poison.

3. very good point about needing to buff them in the event they poop out. I will probably experiment with 3 and buff them a bit but I could see using 2 and instead taking a squad of something else (still troop scoring I'd imagine). Thank you again for this advice here seems very logical.

4. Yeah I definitely will run him as well.. maybe to start 2 flyrants just because that seems a bit easier to manage and once I get my feet wet start going more technical with high reward/some risk units like the SL.

Thanks again man <3

i havent played nids for very long, but i can say a few things... I personally have yet to field a Terv. I always invested in Termigants with devourers (more dakka) as for the tyrant/flyrant- I use nid psychics... i love charging in against GK Paladins and using Paroxysm on them, make them into little weenies. then assault with him(or send some gaunts first) but as for squads, i field "the endless Swarm"(3 squads of Term and 3 squads of Horm, MAXED) toxin, etc. hive guard are a must, IMO, as you dont need LOS, and can really rain on someones day(especially if you take out their assassins first turn) my biovores and Pyrovore do not really get much done against marines, but against the more squishy armies they are great. Ravenors with rending claws are great and can really wreak havok against squads of guard or eldar. umm... entire squads of bikes can be taken out with a group of lictors,(helps that i roll a lot of 6's to wound )

and lets not forget the Doom! drop him in in a spore, and really ruin your opponent's day!

and the last major note for my army list was the Parasite or Mortrex... what can i say? keep him behind a squad of gaunts until you are ready to strike. then let the rippers flow!

iNcontroL wrote:
Let me give you guys a bit of backstory on this:

I am new to Wh40k within the last 5 years or so. I used to play all the time but before those 5 years I played in my friends basement for years.. all the damn time. So I don't feel "new" to this game but certainly to 6th edition. My aspirations are to travel and play in tournaments everywhere I can. My job allows me that mobility and the freetime so I want to give said time and energy to one of my absolute loves (wh40k).

Specific questions:

1. Not sure on how psychic powers work for the Flyrants. All the bat reps I watch have no mention of "leech essence" or anything really.. it's always "iron arm" and stuff like that. So advice / education here would be nice <3

2. Ymgarl or normal stealers with broodlord? I really like the dormant ability and beefier stealers but challenges with the BL seem super powerful as well. My idea with genestealers here is a behind enemy lines hit squad capable of striking important targets or tying up a unit or two while my units get into position. Also some support for the Doom seems ok.

3. My army potentially doesn't field very many units but then it could potentially field A LOT depending on the Tervigons. Is this a point of concern? Do I ditch one of the Tervigons and go with a huge swarm of 'gants or gargoyles?

4. I love the Swarmlord. Probably my favorite unit but without ironarm his toughness/lack of invul save means he can be squishy unless I get him a lot of cover.. work around for this or roll the dice?



HQ: Flyrants x2 : twin linked devourers w/ brainleech / leech essence and psychic scream - 245 points x2 for 490 pts

Infantry: Tervigon w/ Catylst x3 w/ 10 termagants 525 pts + 150 for 675 pts

Elite: Doom w/ spore - 140 pts
Hive Guard x2 - 100 ptspx; line-height: normal;"> GO with x 3
Ymgarl x9 - 207 pts 9 is too many, go with 5-7

Heavy Support: 3x biovore - 135 pts



I appreciate all the help and ideas!

Any way you can fit 20 x Gargoyles w/ TS and AG.? This is a fairly cheap unit that can charge T2. 40 attacks on the charge, Avg 20 hits w/ 6s auto wounds and re-roll-able misses for wounds on T4 or lower. If you add Swarmy and give them preferred enemy it gets better.

I agree with @FeindusMaximus, if you can squeeze some gargyoles or a harpy into your list, that would be a good call.

What are the extra 150 in your 'Gons/'Gants doing? I've found there's basically one set up for these units:

Tervigon, 3 Psychic powers, Toxic Sacs, Adrenal Glands, and maybe Sything Talons = 215 ea. You get 3 rolls on biomancy per 'gon which is amazing and the 6" bubble of FNP and Poison makes those Gants extra hardcore.

There's really no reason to take more than the two required Termagants since you're going to be making them anyway. And that way you can save points for the fun stuff

I'm not 100% sold on the Hive Guard, but if they're working for you, keep it up. I'd recommend as an alternative looking into Gargoyles/Harpies. Both of these units are a lot scarier than they deserve to be for their points cost. And you're gonna need some extra MFCs these days.

Make sure to take Hive Commander on one of your Flyrants to get a 2+ roll for reserves on turn 2. You want those ymgarls on turn 2. And if you want to run the swarmlord, just swap him for one of the flyrants. You'll get the psychic powers you need almost guarenteed. Honestly he's worth his points just for the bonuses he gives to units around him regardless of how good he is in CC.

Also, crazy idea here. Spore Mines. For 60 points (minimum 30) you get 6 mines that you lay in your opponent's deployment zone or near a hard to reach objective. Your opponent will have to a) deploy awkwardly and either b) suffer wounds for free, or c) spend turns shooting or moving his tanks over stupid 10 point models. They've always been an asset for me, but only take them if you're not using that 3rd Fast Attack slot. If you're a two harpie and some gargoyles kind of guy, keep doing your thing man.

I don't like biovores. I know other people do, but I'm not that into them. 'Nids are a forward moving army, there's no need for artillery units and bad ones at that. For that 135 points you can get ~19 gargoyles or some extra upgrades on your flyrants/tervigons.

@ Sneeze - the point totals are for 3 Tervigons at 175 pts each plus the 3 Termigant units at 50 pts each. Also, there is no FNP bubble for a Tervigon. Only Ld and the Toxin Sac and Adrenal gland upgrades you have listed are conferred to the Gaunts. I wish they had a 6" FNP bubble . . . .

On to the list!

Reecius had very good tips for creating a tournament quality list and is a very good player overall.

HQ - typically two Flyrants running 2 Devourers is standard for tournament lists, one with Hive Commander as mentioned if needed based on the composition of the rest of the list. If you run a Swarmlord, typically you will want to take a single Tyrant Guard with Lash whips. Roll on Biomancy in most occasions with your HQs regardless of what they are. Some games may dictate a different play, but that is part of the beauty of Nids.

Troops - A standard tourney list will have 2 Tervigons and the associated Gaunts. Now, how you use them and what other units you would like to play will determine the way that they are deployed. I am with Reecius in that I don't like running 2 because the rest of my list doesn't fit the sit and spawn playstyle. That being said, if you are running a "gun-line" with a number of Hive Guard and Biovores having the two Tervigons in the backfield dishing out FNP can be quite handy.

Warriors are generally not used because of the risk of instant death to a 30+ point model, Hormagaunts have their use but tend to underperform for most people, although with enough other targets they will likely make their points back. Genestealers on their own suffer from getting boltered to death in Overwatch and have no grenades, so their high Int is largely wasted. They are normally deployed in what is termed a Broodlord bomb (4 Stealers with a BL) to get the Broodlord into combat to challenge away on turn 2.

Fast Attack - This is probably the weakest section of the codex unfortunately. Shrikes are too expensive and are a prime instant death target. Ditto for Raveners although being beasts and cheaper than Shrikes they are slightly better. Gargoyles are great, cheap, fast, shoot, and auto-wound. Also they have a large footprint and can screen your other stuff. Harpies suffer from a number of problems that keep them out of the tournament scene. First off they are T5, 4+ save. Heavy bolters and the like are going to get your Harpy minced quickly. Secondly they cannot shoot a meaningful weapon at another flyer. They do however excel in a barrage based list with maxed Biovores, with 3 Harpies you are dropping 15 pie plates a turn! As for Spore Mines, I haven't found them to be at all useful but maybe you can find a use for them.

Heavy Support - Old One Eye is no good. Carnifexes are overpriced sadly and running a dakkafex (2x Devourers) is probably the only viable build, but is not seen in tournaments very often. Trygons are very good, prime upgrade is somewhat questionable in effectiveness as extra shooting doesn't do much for you and the Ld boost is not really needed as your army should be moving as a giant blob anyway. Biovores are good, esp. against Guard, Tau, and any other army that likes to castle. Pinning S4 large blast with 48" range and no LOS? Yes please.

Elites - Doom of Malantai in a pod, Zoanthropes in a Pod or as Biomancy support without a pod, Hive Guard (I'm not too keen on them either but they don't fit my playstyle) are good against any AV12 or less vehicle and provide insta-kill shooting strength, Ymgarls are the best Stealers. Pyrovores are generally considered the worst unit in the codex. Lictors are up there too. The Deathleaper doesn't see play outside fun lists.

Rippers of all forms are generally left at home in competitive lists. As are the Parasite and Tyranid Primes (although the Swarmlord, Prime, Tyrant Guard deathstar is fun),

@djm - right! My bad. I totally meant Furious Charge, not FNP. God that would be nice tho. Quick question, doesn't synapse make the unit fearless, not just give a Ld bubble? I suppose I COULD go look it up, but I'm at work and don't have my codex.

I would disagree with you that Fast Attack is the weakest section of the codex. I really think it's Heavy. Not because those units are bad, but simply because they're massively overpriced. Biovores are definitely the best unit there, but they don't really fit my play style so I don't really use them.

One thing to remember about Harpies is that they're FMCs. So yeah, a heavy bolter COULD eat them for breakfast, but it'd have to hit first. Also, who brings heavy bolters? I found that stinger salvo fairly effective against the rear of most flyers after a nice vector strike. Not to mention that everyone I play against seems to think Harpies are a lot scarier then they actually are and completely target prioritize them wrong. If they're shooting at your harpies and not your hive tyrants, they're doing it wrong and you're winning.

I want to reiterate your point about Gargoyles. They're pretty amazing. If you make sure to model them with their wings out, they will block a ton of LoS, not to mention giving cover saves to your Tervigons. Also with auto wounds, a medium to large swarm can take on some of the scarier monstrous creatures like the Wraithknight. Also they're 6 points each. So you can get 24 of them for less than 150 points. It's just cheap enough that you can feel good about taking two huge squads and people will, again, target prioritize them wrong. If they're shooting the Gargoyles and not the Tervigons or the gants, they're doing it wrong.

Give Spore mines a shot in your next game. Take 6 of them in a "squad" and try and litter them through your opponent's deployment zone. Here's what you're trying to do with them:
* Keep your opponent from getting a good deployment (Ideally they'll keep something in reserve they normally wouldn't because of these little f'kers.)
* Make your opponent deal with them turn 1. Either they'll kill some infantry (not super likely) or your opponent will devote a lot of his firepower turn one to destroying them. (that's the best case scenario)
* Make your opponent move his tanks just to get rid of them. That's the other way people seem to get rid of them is by driving tanks over them. But now their tanks are all over the place and not well supported.

For a 60 point unit to cause that kind of havok is pretty amazing. Plus who knows they might kill something! Guard and Tau players seem to be fairly scared of them.

 Sneezembop wrote:
@djm - right! My bad. I totally meant Furious Charge, not FNP. God that would be nice tho. Quick question, doesn't synapse make the unit fearless, not just give a Ld bubble? I suppose I COULD go look it up, but I'm at work and don't have my codex.

I would disagree with you that Fast Attack is the weakest section of the codex. I really think it's Heavy. Not because those units are bad, but simply because they're massively overpriced. Biovores are definitely the best unit there, but they don't really fit my play style so I don't really use them.

One thing to remember about Harpies is that they're FMCs. So yeah, a heavy bolter COULD eat them for breakfast, but it'd have to hit first. Also, who brings heavy bolters? I found that stinger salvo fairly effective against the rear of most flyers after a nice vector strike. Not to mention that everyone I play against seems to think Harpies are a lot scarier then they actually are and completely target prioritize them wrong. If they're shooting at your harpies and not your hive tyrants, they're doing it wrong and you're winning.

I want to reiterate your point about Gargoyles. They're pretty amazing. If you make sure to model them with their wings out, they will block a ton of LoS, not to mention giving cover saves to your Tervigons. Also with auto wounds, a medium to large swarm can take on some of the scarier monstrous creatures like the Wraithknight. Also they're 6 points each. So you can get 24 of them for less than 150 points. It's just cheap enough that you can feel good about taking two huge squads and people will, again, target prioritize them wrong. If they're shooting the Gargoyles and not the Tervigons or the gants, they're doing it wrong.

Give Spore mines a shot in your next game. Take 6 of them in a "squad" and try and litter them through your opponent's deployment zone. Here's what you're trying to do with them:
* Keep your opponent from getting a good deployment (Ideally they'll keep something in reserve they normally wouldn't because of these little f'kers.)
* Make your opponent deal with them turn 1. Either they'll kill some infantry (not super likely) or your opponent will devote a lot of his firepower turn one to destroying them. (that's the best case scenario)
* Make your opponent move his tanks just to get rid of them. That's the other way people seem to get rid of them is by driving tanks over them. But now their tanks are all over the place and not well supported.

For a 60 point unit to cause that kind of havok is pretty amazing. Plus who knows they might kill something! Guard and Tau players seem to be fairly scared of them.

I'm going have to disagree with you Sneeze....While all this is well and good on paper remember this: Most of the competitive builds now have lot of extremely resilient units. Wave serpents can just move close to them to make them blow, Wraithknights can make them bounce off and do nothing. Riptides will cause the same.

long and short of it is while they look great on paper, you'll be wasting 60 points that you could use as pivotal upgrades on your Tervigons. Heck, 60 points is what a Zoanthope is worth and a Zoanthrope can remove a Land raider...or even better swap out biomancy to pass out Endurance.

either way, stay away from the spore mines in competitions. you'll be terribly disappointed.

roxor08 wrote:

I'm going have to disagree with you Sneeze....While all this is well and good on paper remember this: Most of the competitive builds now have lot of extremely resilient units. Wave serpents can just move close to them to make them blow, Wraithknights can make them bounce off and do nothing. Riptides will cause the same.

long and short of it is while they look great on paper, you'll be wasting 60 points that you could use as pivotal upgrades on your Tervigons. Heck, 60 points is what a Zoanthope is worth and a Zoanthrope can remove a Land raider...or even better swap out biomancy to pass out Endurance.

either way, stay away from the spore mines in competitions. you'll be terribly disappointed.

But that's exactly what I was hoping they'd do! And now they've wasted a turn of movement doing something just to get rid of stupid mines. Or better yet, if they waste a turn of shooting to get rid of them. They're completely a distraction ploy to get my stuff one turn closer with limited resistance. I'm not saying don't take zoanthropes and tervigon upgrades, take all of it! They haven't let me down yet, although I'll admit I haven't been playing nids long enough to take them to any big tourneys. I dunno, give them a try in a casual game!

Really good advice from Reecius.

I've played a lot of variations on the standard 'competitive' Tyranid list, and here's my top 10 pieces of advice when building a nid list.

1) Flyrants x2 or Flyrant + Swarmlord are the way to go. AS Tyrants are too slow and lack the utility of Swarmlord for competitive play.

2) Playstyle dictates, but as a rule of thumb; 1 Tervigon is good, 2 is better, 3 is pushing it, 4 or more is a waste.

3) If you don't have the Doom in a pod you're wrong.

4) Gargoyles are too cheap not to include. Even 25 without upgrades.

5) Ymgarls are best used in small groups as disruption, or in multiple large units (2x10) as a hammer.

6) Biovores eat gunlines.

7) Deathleaper is extremely powerful in team tournaments or games of 1k and less.

8) Hormagaunts are useful with toxin sacs -IF- you have the Swarmlord to give them furious charge. Otherwise you're better off with Gargoyles.

9) Invisibility on the Swarmlord is ridiculously powerful but unreliable. Only risk rolling for it if you're facing someone who has no chance of dealing with SL in CC (Tau/Eldar).

10) Tervigons should be used offensively with 3 powers, or defensively with just catalyst.

I think that you are missing the point Sneeze concerning Spore Mines. Look at the competitive lists out there. Most of them don't care about your S4 AP4 blast. Serpent Spam? Just move past it, which causes it to blow doing no harm. Necrons? Barges, Arks, etc. don't care. Tau? Riptides, most Suits, Commanders, etc. won't take damage. The point here is that the Mines won't do anything to affect the enemies movement or only slightly affect their deployment. In a competitive setting, spending 60 pts on such a minor impact on gameplay isn't smart.

I will agree that Harpies are FMC's and that if they are shooting at your Harpies and not your Flyrants or Tervigons then all the better. Stinger Salvo at fliers? S5, 4 shots on a BS3 model? I'm not sure that's the best answer. Same with vector striking at S5. As I mentioned earlier, I have seen them used successfully dropping pie plate spam, but otherwise they are just too easy to down (T5 and only 4+ Sv).

As for Heavies and Fast Attack competing for worst Force Org slot, I guess it's a matter of opinion. In a competitive setting, I have run only gargoyles from FA. On the other hand, I have run Trygons, Biovores, and Dakkafexes in Pods in competitive lists all to varying levels of success. However, your point about all things Heavy (besides Biovores) being overcosted is well taken and I agree. Although I could make the argument that Shrikes, Raveners, and Sky-Slashers are overcosted as well

Yes, synapse makes a unit fearless.