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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/13 09:55:24
Subject: Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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This came up the other day. Is there a good RAW argument for what happens to the troops on the battlements of a building that just exploded (7 on the chart) and if not, how would you play it and why?
Also, how does every one feel about targeting the empty section of a multipart building?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/13 10:21:52
Subject: Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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As per the faq units on battlements are not embarked in the building and if no units in the building then you cannot shoot the building. Pretty sure there are rules for the guys on the battlements in the brb including them having to do impact tests
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40kGlobal AOA member, regular of Overlords podcast club and 4tk gaming store. Blogger @ http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/
06/2013: 1st at War of the Roses ETC warm up.
08/213: 3rd place double teams at 4tk
09/2013: 7th place, best daemon and non eldar/tau army at Northern Warlords GT
10/2013: 3rd/4th at Battlefield Birmingham
11/2013: 5th at GT heat 3
11/2013: 5th COG 2k at 4tk
01/2014: 34th at Caledonian
03/2014: 3rd GT Final |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/13 12:58:00
Subject: Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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I would take a look at the battlement rules; as I am positive they have a line stating something akin to: If the building below suffers one of X, Y or Z results, then the unit within the battlement must immediately disembark. There are also rules within this section that informs us how this specific disembarking is carried out from a battlement. These rules can be summed up simply as 'the models jump and take fall damage.' As a side note; the building itself is never removed even if it explodes, but simply becomes impassable. The rules are very clear that only buildings occupied by enemy soldiers can be targeted, lacking any specific special rule else-wise of which there is one or two that comes to mind.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/13 12:59:26
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/13 15:09:30
Subject: Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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If the building suffers a Total Collapse, the people on the battlements are forced to leap down.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/13 19:41:42
Subject: Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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DJGietzen wrote:Also, how does every one feel about targeting the empty section of a multipart building?
The parts of a multi-part building are each treated as a separate building. As you only have permission to target occupied buildings, that would mean that you can only target the occupied parts of the multiple part building.
So your first question is only going to ever be an issue if there is a unit on the battlements and another inside the building.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/14 09:40:12
Subject: Re:Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The BRB tells us what the guys on the battlements have to do if the building suffers a total collapse, but makes no mention of an explosion. One school of thought is that the building becomes impassible terrain, and the models on the battlements must all be dead. Another is that the models get to jump down and if they survive the fall all is good. A third option we discussed would be the unit gets to jump down, and the survives who are placed withing range of the explosion suffer hits as if they had been standing where they land before the building exploded.
The second question was more targeted at multi-part buildings. Should you be allowed to shoot at an empty part of a building while an enemy unit occupies a different part of the building.This could be done to destroy the only access point on a building, or drop the floor out from under the guys on the roof of a very tall building while a unit occupies the lower potion but none occupy the upper portion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/14 10:25:07
Subject: Re:Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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DJGietzen wrote:The BRB tells us what the guys on the battlements have to do if the building suffers a total collapse, but makes no mention of an explosion.
Yup, this is one of the current problems with the building rules. A multi-part building that has one part suffer a Detonation will not affect the other parts of the building. So the guys on the Battlements will suffer no ill-effects, although they will lose any way of getting off the battlements other than jumping.
The second question was more targeted at multi-part buildings. Should you be allowed to shoot at an empty part of a building while an enemy unit occupies a different part of the building.This could be done to destroy the only access point on a building, or drop the floor out from under the guys on the roof of a very tall building while a unit occupies the lower potion but none occupy the upper portion.
My point was simply that as a building with battlements is treated as a multiple part building, and the FAQ tells us that models on the battlements don't count as embarked in the building, there is no option to target the building under the occupied battlements unless there is another enemy unit inside.
You can only target occupied buildings. In the case of a multi-part building, each part is considered a separate building. So you can only target occupied parts of a multi-part building.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/16 16:24:39
Subject: Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
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Here's an interesting situation. My troops are on the battlements of a bastion. Opponents troops are inside the bastion. I elect to shoot the building with a unit that is outside. Legal? Along similar lines: Swap the troop placement: my guys are inside, his are on the battlements. Can I still elect to shoot the building? I'm not targeting my troops.. just the building.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/16 16:24:59
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"Why me?" Gideon begged, falling to his knees.
"Why not?" - Asdrubael Vect |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/16 19:40:28
Subject: Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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clively wrote:Here's an interesting situation.
My troops are on the battlements of a bastion.
Opponents troops are inside the bastion.
I elect to shoot the building with a unit that is outside. Legal?
Perfectly legal, yes.
Swap the troop placement: my guys are inside, his are on the battlements.
Can I still elect to shoot the building? I'm not targeting my troops.. just the building.
Technically legal, but probably an oversight. The building rules say you can target an occupied building as if it were a vehicle... they don't specify that it has to be occupied by an enemy unit, but given that you can generally only attack enemy vehicles and not your own, that's probably what they meant.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/16 21:37:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/16 21:17:08
Subject: Re:Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Another fun one, I always wonderd about this passage
BATTLEMENTS AND BUILDING DAMAGE
A unit on the battlements is slightly less prone to harm if the
building suffers damage. They're already on the roof, so that
roof can't fall in on them, however, there is still the possibility
of injury from shrapnel and so on. Accordingly, if the
battlements are damaged, any unit on the battlements suffers
the same number of hits as a unit inside a building would, but
these are resolved at Strength 3, not Strength 6.
How do you damage the battlements if they can't be targeted and have no AV score?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/16 21:17:25
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/16 21:37:12
Subject: Re:Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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DJGietzen wrote:Another fun one, I always wonderd about this passage
BATTLEMENTS AND BUILDING DAMAGE
A unit on the battlements is slightly less prone to harm if the
building suffers damage. They're already on the roof, so that
roof can't fall in on them, however, there is still the possibility
of injury from shrapnel and so on. Accordingly, if the
battlements are damaged, any unit on the battlements suffers
the same number of hits as a unit inside a building would, but
these are resolved at Strength 3, not Strength 6.
How do you damage the battlements if they can't be targeted and have no AV score?
It was an oversight.
The original rules were written in such a way that made the battlements a part of the multi part building. They forgot to give this part an AV. Then the FAQ stated the battlements were not a building and simply the roof of a building complete with a wall for cover.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/16 21:39:27
Subject: Re:Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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They didn't really need to. There was never any reason to assume that the AV of the battlements would be any different to the rest of the building. But instead of going with the easy answer that fit with the existing rules, GW decided to completely break the multiple-part building rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/16 22:04:01
Subject: Re:Exploding buildings and the battlements.
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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insaniak wrote:
They didn't really need to. There was never any reason to assume that the AV of the battlements would be any different to the rest of the building. But instead of going with the easy answer that fit with the existing rules, GW decided to completely break the multiple-part building rules.
Well yea that is true, they never specified an AV for battlements and it follows that it would be the same as the rest of the multi-part building, but you are correct that they "decided to completely break the multiple-part building rules."
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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