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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/16 13:32:39
Subject: Re:US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/17 17:03:51
Subject: Re:US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Indeed none of the last few posts have been relevant so we'll leave this thoroughly pointless tangent here, now.
Is the terrifying graphic that started this whole affair off.
If one actually takes into account the text at the bottom, which is mysteriously absent in most of the reports about this
http://nation.foxnews.com/religion/2013/04/05/us-army-labeled-evangelicals-catholics-examples-religious-extremism
it's not really quite such a massive deal as some would have one believe perhaps.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/17 17:30:51
Subject: Re:US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Bit too dry there huh ?
Although I also think the reaction has been somewhat OTT since then....
but it's a slow news day after all I guess...
I think I can see what the original author was trying to say, and I guess there's limits on what one can fit onto a ..a.. slide ? .. cell ? screen..? but one would suggest then that if what you're trying to show doesn't neatly fit into whatever then perhaps whatever is not the best medium for it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/17 18:12:18
Subject: Re:US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Not sure, and the story is a few months old so data is scattered.
Looks like the whole show can be seen online
http://www.adfmedia.org/files/ExtremismPresentation.pdf
.. I'm guessing some of the gang names on #28 maybe don't translate well..?
The text seems to come from
http://www.beyondintractability.org/essay/dealing-extremists
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/19 11:12:40
Subject: Re:US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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http://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/the-gop-s-favorite-hate-monger-how-the-republican-party-came-to-embrace-bryan-fischer#racism
Fischer’s anti-gay rhetoric has come close to calls for violence. While retelling the biblical story of Phinehas, Fischer said “nation had lapsed into rampant sexual immorality -- I don’t know if that sounds familiar to you, it certainly does to me” – but was redeemed after Phinehas killed a couple caught “in flagrante.” The message of the story, Fischer said, is that what “God is obviously looking for is more Phinehases in our day” and for “each one of us be a Phinehas in our own world and in our own generation.”
On issues of public policy, Fischer believes that “homosexuals should be disqualified from public office,” banned from serving as judges and barred from working as teachers, and that “homosexual behavior should be against the law.” Fischer advocates treating gays and lesbians in the same way as drug addicts, saying, “Whatever we think we should do to curtail injection drug use are the same sorts of things we should pursue to curtail homosexual conduct.”
Fischer maintains that Christians should not vote for any candidate who supports gay rights in any form because, he says, homosexuality is an “abomination in the nostrils of God” that “no rational society should ever endorse.”
Gay Soldiers and an Effeminized Culture Ruined the Military
Fischer’s contempt for gays and lesbians even affects his outlook on members of the military. Social conservatives reacted furiously to the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, and many activists were enraged that even a handful of Republicans voted to overturn the discriminatory policy. Fischer was one of the loudest opponents of the repeal effort, and has made the commitment to reinstating Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell a litmus test for any Republican presidential candidate seeking his approval. Prior to the repeal vote, Fischer insisted that it would be one of the most important votes “in the history of our country” because repeal would be “utterly catastrophic” to the military.
Fischer warned that if the policy was repealed,
We would be left with a military comprised of nothing but sexual deviants and those who celebrate sexual deviancy. That is a guaranteed path to a permanently and irreversibly emasculated military that could not defend us if their lives -- let alone ours -- depended on it ... Every advance of the homosexual agenda comes at the expense of religious freedom. We as a nation must choose between the homosexual agenda and liberty, because we can’t have both.
After the Senate voted to repeal the policy, Fischer warned that the military would “now be feminized and neutered beyond repair” and insisted that “the world is now a more dangerous place for us all.” Fischer called repeal supporters “treasonous” and said the new Marine motto should be “The Few, the Proud, the Sexually Twisted.”
Fischer’s harsh words for service members aren’t only reserved for those who are gay or who don’t share his hardened anti-gay attitudes. When Army Sgt. Salvatore Giunta received the Medal of Honor for saving fellow soldiers who were under heavy fire, Fischer infamously criticized it as part of a “disturbing trend” that shows that “we have feminized the Medal of Honor.” Fischer lamented that the Medal of Honor no longer went to service members who killed enemies, but only those who saved fellow soldiers, and was thus a sign that American “culture has become so feminized.”
After the military rescinded a speaking invitation to Rev. Franklin Graham because of his harsh anti-Muslim statements, Fischer posited: “You want to know who’s now running the U.S. Army, the U.S. Navy and the Marines and calling the shots where it counts? Fundamentalist Muslims and homosexual activists.”
Fischer’s animosity extends to people of color. In an article accusing government social services of destroying the African American community, Fischer likened African Americans to rabbits: “Welfare has subsidized illegitimacy by offering financial rewards to women who have more children out of wedlock,” Fischer wrote. “We have incentivized fornication rather than marriage, and it’s no wonder we are now awash in the disastrous social consequences of people who rut like rabbits.” Fischer, who has also defended the Constitution’s 3/5 compromise as an “anti-slavery clause,” ultimately removed his post and then altered it by taking out its most degrading comments.
Fischer insists that Native Americans deserved to be killed and forced out of their lands during American expansion because they didn’t all convert to Christianity. Angered that the memorial service for those killed in the mass shooting in Tucson included a Native American prayer, Fischer charged that since Native Americans were “steeped in the basest forms of superstition, had been guilty of savagery in warfare for hundreds of years, and practiced the most debased forms of sexuality,” they were punished by God. Until Native Americans convert to Christianity, Fischer said, they cannot be considered full-fledged American citizens.
He went on to say that the divine punishment lasts to this day, as Native Americans “remain mired in poverty and alcoholism because many native Americans continue to cling to the darkness of indigenous superstition instead of coming into the light of Christianity and assimilating into Christian culture.” Fischer said that America itself may soon receive the same punishment from God:
Even worse, the reaction will likely obscure the sobering lesson for today. America in 2011 is as guilty of “abominations” as the native American tribes we replaced. We have the blood of 53 million babies on our hands through abortion. We have normalized sexual immorality, adultery, and homosexuality, all horrors in the eyes of God, and are witnessing a surge in incest, pedophilia and even bestiality in our midst.
…
The only question that matters today is this one: how much time does America have left to repent of its superstition, its savagery and its sexual immorality before it is too late, before we will have filled up our own slop bucket and will have morally disqualified ourselves from sovereign control of our own land?
In what has become a pattern, the AFA removed Fischer’s article even after he dedicated his radio program to making the exact same arguments.
Muslims Must Convert…Or Die
Along with his ignominious attacks on people of color and borderline violent language towards gays and lesbians, Fischer reserves a special place in his vicious rhetoric for the American Muslim community.
Using eliminationist language, Fischer claims that American Muslims are a “toxic cancer” to American society and that Muslim Student Associations are “parasites.” Fischer, who has said that Muslims worship a “demon God” and that Islam is based on “the spirit of Satan,” has urged the U.S. to ban the construction of mosques, likened mosques to IEDs, and prayed for the destruction of the Dome of the Rock. He has repeatedly claimed that Muslims are inherently dangerous, unintelligent and mentally ill due to inbreeding.
Fischer believes that Muslims must be purged from the military and prohibited from enlisting. Moreover, he has continually demanded that the U.S. not only ban Muslim immigration but also deport and expel all American Muslims, asserting that “treasonous acts are likely committed on virtually a weekly basis here in the U.S. in many mosques and Islamic organizations.” Since Fischer believes that Islam is “treasonous at its core,” he maintains that only Muslims who renounce their religion and convert to Christianity should be allowed to come into and live in the U.S.
“Islam is an evil and wicked religion, and unworthy of a Christian nation,” Fischer writes, “…the less Islam there is in the United States, the better.”
Because he believes “tyranny is in the DNA of Islam,” Fischer says that the only way for democracy to emerge in a Muslim country is for the U.S. to bring about “a mass conversion of its people to biblical Christianity.” He has even insisted that soldiers who lost their lives in the Iraq War died in vain because the invasion didn’t lead to the conversion of Iraq’s people to Christianity.
For Fischer, Muslims only have one choice: convert to Christianity or die. He warned Muslims that if they reject Christianity, the consequences will be fatal:
So we say to them, look, if you don’t want our missionaries, fine, that’s your choice, we’ll take our missionaries and our Marines, we’ll take them home, but we’re going to let you know we have no hesitation about returning with lethal force if the forces in your country threaten us again. This time it’s Marines and missionaries, next time it’ll be Marines and missiles.
The Christians-Only Constitution
Despite the American Family Association’s claim that it “defends the rights of conscience and religious liberty,” Fischer claims that the Constitution is only meant to protect the rights of Christians.
According to Fischer, Muslims deserve no First Amendment rights: “Islam has no fundamental First Amendment claims, for the simple reason that it was not written to protect the religion of Islam. Islam is entitled only to the religious liberty we extend to it out of courtesy.” Since the religious rights of Muslims are only temporary and can be rescinded, he contends, “Muslims have no First Amendment right to build mosques in America. They have that privilege at the moment, but it is a privilege that can be revoked.”
He instead believes that the Founding Fathers only wanted to extend rights to different Protestant denominations, and bizarrely justifies his argument by citing proposed amendments that were rejected by the drafters of the Constitution.
George Washington directly contradicted the majoritarian-favoritism now propagated by Fischer, writing in a letter to the Jewish community of Newport, Rhode Island that the U.S. “gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance.” “All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship,” Washington wrote. “It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights.”
Eugene Volokh of UCLA Law School writes, “Both the First Amendment and the No Religious Test Clause of the original Constitution were quite deliberately written to cover all religions…I know of no sources that suggested that anyone during the Framing era understood the Constitution as excluding ‘Mahometans,’ or non-Christians more generally, from either the Free Exercise Clause or the No Religious Test Clause.”
Fischer also denies the existence of the separation of church and state, which was established in the First Amendment and incorporated as applicable to the states through the Fourteenth Amendment, and believes that states and localities should be allowed to establish official religions. Fischer also wants to model the U.S. justice system on the biblical law of ancient Israel (Fischer himself cites Genesis to attack Muslims and uses Leviticus to demonize gays and lesbians).
For Fischer, the separation of church and state is an idea straight out of Nazi Germany:
Secular fundamentalists in the United States know the same thing that Hitler knew. The only thing that stands in their way of the total takeover of our culture, the final removal of any mention of God from the public arena, and the shredding of the last remains of our Judeo-Christian value system, is the church of Jesus Christ.
Despite the Constitution’s clear pronouncement against religious tests for public office, Fischer questions whether a Mormon candidate like Mitt Romney should be allowed to serve as president. He urges people to ask Romney if “he embrace[s] the fundamentals of LDS theology” in order to “let the American people decide whether they want somebody with those convictions sitting in the Oval Office.”
and my all time personal favourite...
Fischer believes it is a great injustice that biblical law isn’t imposed on all aspects of American society, including our relations with the animal kingdom. Following the tragic news that the SeaWorld whale Tilikum had killed a trainer, Fischer demanded that the whale be put to death. He claimed that the courts should use the “ancient civil code of Israel” in dealing with Tilikum, citing Exodus 21:28-29, which calls for the stoning of animals that kill humans and the death penalty for owners if the animal kills again. When Tilikum began performing again, Fischer was incensed at the “ongoing failure of the West to take counsel on practical matters from the Scripture,” crying: “Tilikum is back in the water, ready to kill again.”
But whales aren’t the only animals that receive Fischer’s wrath.
Fischer blamed a deadly attack by a grizzly bear in Yellowstone Park on the fact that American “culture has jettisoned a biblical view” of animals, and called it a sign that God is punishing America: “God said a curse would fall on a land which turned its back on him, and one consequence would be more tragic deaths at the hands of predatory animals. The truly sad thing here is that we are bringing this curse upon ourselves.”
He later called for an open season on grizzlies in order to end the divine curse: “If it’s a choice between grizzlies and humans, the grizzlies have to go. And it’s time…God makes it clear in Scripture that deaths of people and livestock at the hands of savage beasts is a sign that the land is under a curse. The tragic thing here is that we are bringing this curse upon ourselves.”
After the gray wolf was taken off the endangered species list, Fischer ecstatically tweeted that it was time to finish off the species: “Great news for all who want to reverse the biblical curse of predators: can now hunt wolves in Idaho!”
So to summarise he thinks the Con. only applies to Protestants, wants Muslims deported and thinks we should stone animals to death.
And he's not an extremist ?!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/19 15:15:18
Subject: Re:US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Yes, you are.
Some of those quotes were clearly taking him out of context in an attempt to make him out to be a monster. But that is the tactic used by activist liberals.
 as opposed to the always honest people from the Xtian right of course.
But we'll go with that then, which of the comments that you don't think were taken out of context -- you say "some" of them are -- are defensible and not at all lunatic fringe ?
For example:In reference to the biblical Phineas, they try and claim that because fisher referred to how Phineas executed 2 Homosexuals back in the bible days(because it was the law at the time..and so was executing adulterers and blasphemers), that this means Fisher thinks we should do the same. This is a clear attempt to make people think Fisher is in favor of homosexual execution. Perfect example of taking him out of context to make him out to be a monster
Please explain what he did mean by this then ?
And also the comments about native americans, people of ethnic descent and muslims.
Oh and the USA Constituition too.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/19 15:19:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/19 15:48:54
Subject: Re:US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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.. * pun along the lines of a worthy goal to be placed here *
I think you're stretching beyond belief to sat that story about killing people for X/Y/X that is referenced is actually meant to be about 1/2/3
You're basically claiming that if someone says a person " went all Charlie Manson" they drfieted around aimlessly for a few years before becoming a common figure of reference.
Presumably in the same way that when we refer to people "going postal" we, of course, mean they get up really early 6 days a week and have an in depth knowledge of some neighbourhoods.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/20 11:20:05
Subject: Re:US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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How will the character of a town -- nebulous idea that this is anyway -- be weakened by a gay bar ?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/20 13:03:32
Subject: Re:US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Nonsense.
There's a big difference between a bar and a brothel.
There's no evidence or justification for claiming that homosexuals are seedy.
And you still haven't actually answered as to how having a gay bar would lower the character of a town.
You've made some spurious and unsupported claims that it's better that towns stay " traditional", which is essentially trite and meaningless and totally unsupported by any actual evidence other than your crudely expressed opinion.
I'm sure we're all reassured though that non white people can be normal.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/20 13:09:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/21 17:21:20
Subject: Re:US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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well even if we accept that they messed up there, Mr. Sebster would still only be wrong if one was to claim that the KK aren't a hate group/organisation/whatever. yes ..?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/31 13:11:43
Subject: Re:US Army defines Christian ministry as 'domestic hate group'
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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We're well off the OT, which was ages ago anyway.
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