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Tigurius can re-roll the powers he rolls on the psychic table. If you get the same power again you can re-roll your psychic power.

Can you re-roll a re-roll?

Are you told to roll again, or re roll?

MarkyMark wrote:
Are you told to roll again, or re roll?

Semantics, but RAW you're right

Not semantics. Roll for first turn is rolled again on a tie, not rerolled

side question, if you roll a power on a say Biomancy and you do not like it, must the he re-roll on the same chart or can he switch to another discipline?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Not semantics. Roll for first turn is rolled again on a tie, not rerolled

So rolling a dice again isn't the same as re-rolling a dice? Technically in English it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

40k-noob wrote:
side question, if you roll a power on a say Biomancy and you do not like it, must the he re-roll on the same chart or can he switch to another discipline?

RAW he can roll on another discipline, but since you're trying to get a power from a specific discipline it would be dumb.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Not semantics. Roll for first turn is rolled again on a tie, not rerolled

So rolling a dice again isn't the same as re-rolling a dice? Technically in English it is.

Difference between rerolling and rolling again is that you cant reroll rerolls but can for sure reroll if you rolled again.


So in the rules theres a big difference between the two.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Not semantics. Roll for first turn is rolled again on a tie, not rerolled

So rolling a dice again isn't the same as re-rolling a dice? Technically in English it is.

The rulebook defines a difference. So no, they are not the same.

Or, to put it another way - re-rolling is regenerating the results of roll number one, there is only effectively one roll. Rolling *again* means moving onto roll two and discarding roll one entirely.
That's the English explanation for why they're different.

Is Tigurius eligible for another re-roll after rolling again?

What I mean is:

Tiggy rolls for psychic powers.

1st roll: he gets one and decides to go with it.

2nd roll: he gets two and decides to re-roll

re-roll: he gets one and is forced to roll again.

Does he get to re-roll the following "rolling again"?

You cannot reroll a reroll

If you are told to roll again, you can keep on doing this.

Hence why people need to be precise - can he REROLL his powers, or does he ROLL AGAIN. Similarly when you roll duplicate powers, is that a ROLL AGAIN or a REROLL?

But the question is: am I re-rolling a re-roll, or am I re-rolling the whole 2nd roll.

The 2nd roll was re-rolled before, but since I'm rolling again, I'm basically starting over the whole 2nd roll, thus voiding any previous re-rolls.

You cannot reroll a reroll, but a roll again breaks that chain.

Roll, reroll ->normally stop, but you are allowed to through another rule "roll again" -> re-roll now allowed, as the roll again makes a new roll as opposed to a do-over of the previous roll.

Yuck. Too many rolls.

Tigurius' Master Psyker special rule is specifically called out as a re-roll in his entry, thereby making the entire discussion moot.

Specifically:
"...may re-roll any or all of the dice...."

Not entirely - is the requirement to roll again for duplicate psychic powers reroll or roll again?

Because if it is roll again you can:

1) Roll a duplicate power
2) Roll again due to psychic power rules
3) If you dislike this result, roll again due to Tiggys rules
4) If this rolls another duplicate, roll again..
..
10) profit!

Personally, I would consider 'rolling again' to be identical to a 're-roll' from a rules perspective (and anyone at my table who tried to play it differently would get books chucked at their head), but I'll leave that up to the rules-legalese wizards.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Not entirely - is the requirement to roll again for duplicate psychic powers reroll or roll again?

Because if it is roll again you can:

1) Roll a duplicate power
2) Roll again due to psychic power rules
3) If you dislike this result, roll again re-roll due to Tiggys rules
4) If this rolls another duplicate, roll again..
..
10) profit!

Slight fix there, Tiggy's rule states re-roll, not roll again.
If you get a (non-duplicate) power you don't like, re-roll it and get the same result, you are then stuck with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PrinceOfMadness wrote:
Personally, I would consider 'rolling again' to be identical to a 're-roll' from a rules perspective (and anyone at my table who tried to play it differently would get books chucked at their head), but I'll leave that up to the rules-legalese wizards.

But there are cases where they must be different, or the game doesn't work.
Roll for first turn was mentioned earlier.
If the rolls are tied after a re-roll, then you can't re-roll again. No one goes first.

PrinceOfMadness wrote:Personally, I would consider 'rolling again' to be identical to a 're-roll' from a rules perspective (and anyone at my table who tried to play it differently would get books chucked at their head), but I'll leave that up to the rules-legalese wizards.

So if you roll to deploy first, and both roll 4's, and then roll again, getting 4's, you then call the game a draw becasue you are not allowed to reroll a reroll?

No, because roll again and reroll HAVE to be treated differently, and luckily the rules specify that reroll is not equal to roll again,

grendel083 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Not entirely - is the requirement to roll again for duplicate psychic powers reroll or roll again?

Because if it is roll again you can:

1) Roll a duplicate power
2) Roll again due to psychic power rules
3) If you dislike this result, roll again re-roll due to Tiggys rules
4) If this rolls another duplicate, roll again..
..
10) profit!

Slight fix there, Tiggy's rule states re-roll, not roll again.
If you get a (non-duplicate) power you don't like, re-roll it and get the same result, you are then stuck with it.

I meant reroll...

My point is that, assuming psychic powers state roll again - I believe they do - then Tiggys reroll rule can work more than once on the "same" dice roll, because a roll again is a new "instance", and you are therefore not rerolling a reroll - you are rerolling a roll again. If you then are forced to roll again, as Tiggys rerroll (of the duplicate power that you rolled again) could end up with another duplicate power - forcing another roll again. Which, if you dont like it, can be rerolled due to Tiggys power.

PrinceOfMadness wrote:
Personally, I would consider 'rolling again' to be identical to a 're-roll' from a rules perspective (and anyone at my table who tried to play it differently would get books chucked at their head), but I'll leave that up to the rules-legalese wizards.

So If rolled the same psyhic power twice times in a row and didnt swap out once you would say i have to have that power twice?. You would have me break the rule that i have to have powers i dont already know rather then break the re roll rule. (it does clearly say roll again for duplicate psyhic powers).

Nos, i have had that before, rolling for first turn ended up being 4 rolls iirc lol.

Marky - easier way is just say "evens you go first, odds I do", and roll one dice.

You wont get ties that way - about the only failure mode then is cocked dice.

For me currently its easier if i just resign myself to going second, its been 11 tourny games in a row and only one (the 10th!) i have had the choice to go first or second depressing slightly.

So in one specific instance, you are allowed to "roll again" multiple times. Fine. I am willing to concede that "roll again" and "re-roll" are separate as far as RAW is concerned.

Its more than one - from memory the Chaos Boon table for Gifts state you "roll again" if you get Daemon Prince or Spawn results, meaning you can never get those results from a Gift

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Its more than one - from memory the Chaos Boon table for Gifts state you "roll again" if you get Daemon Prince or Spawn results, meaning you can never get those results from a Gift

Gift of Mutation says to roll again on Spawnhood or Dark Apotheosis.
Boon of Mutation (Tzeentch psychic power), and Multiple Boons says to re-roll Dark Apotheosis (and Spawnhood for Multiple).