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With the demise of the most recent GW wash line and the rise of their new stuff we, as painters, are once again looking at a change in how they perform. Which is fine if you are starting new, but not so swell if you are picking up on an old army. I'm growing frustrated with this as my DE (and Ork, and IG, and Raven Guard) armies all now have an odd hodge-podge of secondary market paints to replace old GW ones that are no longer made and/or made different over the years.
So, as I am about to embark on a new painting project for a new army - I'd really rather not count on them. I also want to use a colored wash as a main part of my army scheme.
As a result, i am currently leaning towards doing up my own mix so I can have it for the life of the army, and not the life of a paint line.
The wash will, specifically, be going over a white base. Ina perfect world I'd like a wash that is aggressive about crevices but doesn't really do much, at all, to the high points (really, if I could have an infinite supply of the old washes, I'd be happy using either Leviathan purple or maybe Baal red, honestly)
Does anyone have any advice/thoughts/experiences with making their own washes?
After a bit of hunting I am currently leaning towards 'Les Magic Wash' as the best recepie out there for the results I want - but I'd love to hear some input if anyone has some on alternate methods, or experiences doing this for themselves.
Dashofpepper wrote:Thor665 is actually a Dark Eldar god, manifested into electronic bytes and presented here on dakkadakka to bring pain and destruction to all lesser races. Read his tactica, read his forums posts, and when he deigns to critique or advise you directly, bookmark it and pay attention.
You can help with the "aggressive towards crevices, leaves high points alone" desire by washing over a coat of gloss varnish.
In fact, if you were looking for that effect, it might behoove you to explore oil washes, as their characteristic of allowing clean up afterwards (and their requirement of being done over a gloss coat anyway) could help you get the effect you're talking about.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Alfndrate wrote: Well, Secret Weapon sells Les' washes now... so you wouldn't even have to make them..
You, sir, have accurately pegged my lazy factor. I will look into this.
azreal13 wrote: You can help with the "aggressive towards crevices, leaves high points alone" desire by washing over a coat of gloss varnish.
In fact, if you were looking for that effect, it might behoove you to explore oil washes, as their characteristic of allowing clean up afterwards (and their requirement of being done over a gloss coat anyway) could help you get the effect you're talking about.
Hurm - I was kind of planning to do a varnish as the last step anyway, so this might very much be up my alley.
Oil washes though, that's what GW now calls their 'inks' right? Same thing? Because those seek crevices great, but in my opinion tend to stain the high points more aggressively as well.
Dashofpepper wrote:Thor665 is actually a Dark Eldar god, manifested into electronic bytes and presented here on dakkadakka to bring pain and destruction to all lesser races. Read his tactica, read his forums posts, and when he deigns to critique or advise you directly, bookmark it and pay attention.
No, inks are highly liquid like washes, but have a much denser pigmentation than a wash, you can effectively paint with inks if you put your mind to it. GW's washes are not inks.
Oil washes are exactly that, oil paints, thinned with spirits. The distinction is that oil paints take a long time to dry, so allow much greater freedom to correct after application.
The varnish is necessary as the thinners used for the oil paint will eat acrylic if not sufficiently protected.
However, there will be many, many shades of paint available to choose from, so you'll be able to get the right colour without mixing, and one tube of oil paint will make loads of wash.
In the interests of full disclosure, I will say I'm advising you on a technique I've not tried myself (yet) but I intend to, and reading your OP, it sounds like the advantages it brings will suit your needs.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I agree with azreal13 - a gloss coat before washing, regardless of what you use, really cuts down on general staining.
Be aware, though, that washes flow very easily over gloss, which can be a double-edged sword. It's great to be able to touch a brush to a panel line and watch the color magically spread down the line, but if the lines you're washing intersect, the stuff will keep flowing. There are times where you may have to apply the wash in stages and manipulate gravity (i.e. rotate the model, focusing on the downward facing surfaces, only) to avoid having the wash run right off the model. If, for example, you're trying to blackline a Space Marine's leg using a very "flowy" wash (like the classic "Magic Wash" - ink in Future floor polish), you'll have trouble keeping color around the knee pad if you've also done the boot, ribbing, and panel lines down the calf - left standing, gravity will pull the wash right down and off of the knee, following the path created by the rest of the wash, with the bulk settling on the foot or overflowing onto the base (ask me how I know...).
Also, if exploring oil washes, don't cheap out on the paint. Oil paint is comparatively expensive, but a little goes a long way and small tubes are generally available. "Academic" grade paints compare to the good stuff much like cheap craft acrylics to the hobby brands - the pigmentation is generally very coarse, which becomes all the more apparent as the product is thinned. A wash of crappy oil will leave a grainy, uneven stain, instead a nice, smooth gradient. Also note that general applications (as opposed to pin washes, where the application is much more limited and capillary action directs the flow) will still stain raised surfaces, even over gloss. A sponge or brush loaded with your thinner of choice (turps, white spirit, etc.) is required for cleanup. Oil washes aren't more controllable because of their wet working properties, but because they're so forgiving of correction (as mentioned).
The Dreadnote wrote:But the Emperor already has a shrine, in the form of your local Games Workshop. You honour him by sacrificing your money to the plastic effigies of his warriors. In time, your devotion will be rewarded with the gift of having even more effigies to worship.
I thought Army Painter's new washes are GW's old washes? Weren't tests done and they basically performed exactly the same? (If I were actually useful I'd have a link handy but I don't. But I swear this was tested and that's what the results were).
You guys are giving me a lot to think about with the oil washes, though reading up on them they sound like a definite upping in difficulty to my mind - I see a lot of comments about exercising control with the brush and I'm sort of like a boxer wearing gloves when it comes to fine manipulations.
Maybe a gloss base and then a regular wash is about what I want/need...
Super Newb wrote: I thought Army Painter's new washes are GW's old washes? Weren't tests done and they basically performed exactly the same? (If I were actually useful I'd have a link handy but I don't. But I swear this was tested and that's what the results were).
The washes are pretty close and I currently use their blue to replace my Asurmen wash on my DE army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/16 18:06:44
Dashofpepper wrote:Thor665 is actually a Dark Eldar god, manifested into electronic bytes and presented here on dakkadakka to bring pain and destruction to all lesser races. Read his tactica, read his forums posts, and when he deigns to critique or advise you directly, bookmark it and pay attention.
Thor665 wrote: You guys are giving me a lot to think about with the oil washes, though reading up on them they sound like a definite upping in difficulty to my mind - I see a lot of comments about exercising control with the brush and I'm sort of like a boxer wearing gloves when it comes to fine manipulations.
Yes, in a way - depending on how you go about it, though, the increase is not so much in the complexity as the amount of labor. You can literally slop an oil wash all over the model, let it dry, then run a thinner-dampened sponge over it, drybrush style. Not particularly difficult, but it does add an extra step. Check out a snippet of one of Les Bursley's tutorials - start at the 18 minute mark, right after he's given it a gloss coat:
Not terribly complex, right? Not trying to push you specifically into oil washes - honestly, I don't really use them, myself - but you needn't be afraid of trying them.
If you can't watch the embedded video, here's a direct link.
The Dreadnote wrote:But the Emperor already has a shrine, in the form of your local Games Workshop. You honour him by sacrificing your money to the plastic effigies of his warriors. In time, your devotion will be rewarded with the gift of having even more effigies to worship.
That is a very nice finished effect he gets there. I'll have to think on how that will work with me, since the wash is for daemonette skin. You are right that it doesn't look too difficult.
Dashofpepper wrote:Thor665 is actually a Dark Eldar god, manifested into electronic bytes and presented here on dakkadakka to bring pain and destruction to all lesser races. Read his tactica, read his forums posts, and when he deigns to critique or advise you directly, bookmark it and pay attention.
Thor665 wrote: You guys are giving me a lot to think about with the oil washes, though reading up on them they sound like a definite upping in difficulty to my mind - I see a lot of comments about exercising control with the brush and I'm sort of like a boxer wearing gloves when it comes to fine manipulations.
Maybe a gloss base and then a regular wash is about what I want/need...
Super Newb wrote: I thought Army Painter's new washes are GW's old washes? Weren't tests done and they basically performed exactly the same? (If I were actually useful I'd have a link handy but I don't. But I swear this was tested and that's what the results were).
The washes are pretty close and I currently use their blue to replace my Asurmen wash on my DE army.
Good to know their blue is close.
Someone specifically tested their black wash and whatever their mud wash is called and couldn't tell any difference between them and GW's old Badab Black and Devlan Mud.
