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Hello DakkaDakka! I've had an idea for a warhammer army, an idea about as original as it gets (as in, not very many people have posted the same idea online). My idea, Aztec/Mayan Marines. The Aztecs are one of histories "warrior cultures", but unlike the vikings, romans, mongols, greeks, egyptians, etc. they haven't seen much Space Marine treatment. Which is why I want to make one of my own. They'll most likely be a small force, used more for allies than anything else (unless they really go well, then they might evolve into a full-fledged army)

The ideas I have for the army are as follows:
"Eagle warriors" will be Assault Marines, they will have beakie helmets and sanguinary guard jump packs
"Jaguar warriors" will be the elite fighters, most likely terminators or vanguard/sternguard. really the only thing different will be that they'll have the space wolves "wolf" helmet (possibly modified to have a smaller snout, to make it look more feline rather than canine.
"The Shorn Ones". This concept sounds more like something GWS made up rather than something from real life. The "Shorn Ones" was the most prestigious warrior society - their heads were shaved apart from a long braid over the left ear. Their bald heads and faces were painted one half blue and another half red or yellow. They had sworn not to take a step backwards during a battle on pain of death at the hands of their comrades. That just sounds like a typical imperium attitude doesnt it? Im not so sure what to use for them though... possibly Centurions or Termies?
I would be using CC weapons from Fantasy Lizardmen,probably used as power swords? (or frost blades if I use space wolf rules)
Lots of scouts (fluff reasons, see below)
Focus on Librarians (temple priests) rather than captains for HQ

Non-essential fluff stuff:
Ok now the most important bits, the part that wont have an impact when playing the game! (unless friends let me use special rules to represent it)
My chapter would be rivals with Crimson Fists (spanish marines)
The chapter was decimated by Plague Marines lead by Typhus (many succumbed to horrible disease, history is great for ideas!)
Prestige for warriors who capture enemies alive rather than killing them (to sacrifice to emperor)
Live on jungle planet (like Catachan), but in temple cities with giant, stepped pyramids (basically ripped straight from Lustria fluff, not everything is original)

Now for the stuff that Im having trouble with. Im bad for this kind of thing...
Chapter symbol. I have no idea what to do for my symbol. The only things I can find online that might work would be a b***h to free hand
Chapter scheme. The idea have in my head is black/teal, with yellow and red details (picture to come later)
Chapter name. I am horrible when coming up with names... especially Aztec ones... any suggestions?

Finally, what rule book should I use? My choices are:
Vanilla Marines= always a good choice, could use Raven Guard chapter tactics for "ambush assault" feel. Also grav guns.
Blood Angels= good close combat focus, focus on librarians, death company blood lust could easily work with fluff
Space Wolves= another one with a good close combat focus, savage barbarian feel, could use lizardmen weapons as frost weapons instead (to make them feel special and different), could use fenrisian wolves and thunderwolves as an excuse to add dinosaurs into my army (marines riding caurnosaurs? )

That sounds awesome! Actually, if you make them CSM you can even have them make heart sacrifices to Khorne! As for the name, try looking up the names of Aztec gods. They're almost impossible to pronounce (just try to pronounce Quetzalcoatl) but it's an idea.

i don't know if aztecs really fit the elite warrior stylings of the space marines, given that their entire country was subjigated within a year by a handful of europeans. That's from a fluff/gamepoint point of view though, if you want to do it stylistically then all power to you. Would love to see it when it's done and painted. There might be some conversation opertunities from Lizardmen, they seem very aztec in their aesthetic.

xruslanx wrote:
i don't know if aztecs really fit the elite warrior stylings of the space marines, given that their entire country was subjigated within a year by a handful of europeans.

I mean Rome fell to barbarians didn't it? You can pick low points in any civilization's history and make them look sad. Both those indian civilizations did have some pretty interesting things they did in their prime.

Another Idea is run them as Dark Angels,

Eagle Warriors: Ravenwing, plenty of wingy bits on them, emphasis on speed, and rightly feared
Jaguar Warriors: Deathwing and Veterans
Tēlpochcalli(trainees in aztec culture): Regular joe marines aspiring wanting to become either Eagle or Jaguar warriors
Now just as a goofy idea, run chaplains as the battleleaders (nothing screams a religiously focused chapter lie chaplains as the battle leaders imho)

Chapter Symbol: Honestly I would say look up any Native American symbols that you like
Chapter symbols: as you said, but go bright!
Chapter name: Honestly I think The Shorn Ones would be an excellent name for them (and with the shorn ones doctrine it goes well with the army wide stubborn), also it would fit in with aspirants desires to join the chapter. (assuming the recruiting world in general is aztec/mayan based)

EDIT 1: adding some points
EDIT 2: adding my edits list

 Rismonite wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
i don't know if aztecs really fit the elite warrior stylings of the space marines, given that their entire country was subjigated within a year by a handful of europeans.

I mean Rome fell to barbarians didn't it? You can pick low points in any civilization's history and make them look sad. Both those indian civilizations did have some pretty interesting things they did in their prime.

The romans were beset by barbarians for centuries and had kept them suppressed. They crumbled *very* slowly. However, the Aztecs broke in under a year of first contact with europeans.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
i don't know if aztecs really fit the elite warrior stylings of the space marines, given that their entire country was subjigated within a year by a handful of europeans.

I mean Rome fell to barbarians didn't it? You can pick low points in any civilization's history and make them look sad. Both those indian civilizations did have some pretty interesting things they did in their prime.

The romans were beset by barbarians for centuries and had kept them suppressed. They crumbled *very* slowly. However, the Aztecs broke in under a year of first contact with europeans.

In all fairness the technology used by the Conquistidors was about on par with necron vs. IoM

No mention of the Rainbow Warriors yet? I am disappoint.

Wardragoon wrote:In all fairness the technology used by the Conquistidors was about on par with necron vs. IoM

That, and the Romans didn't think too highly of foreigners, whereas many of the native American tribes freely allowed those strange visitors to establish a foothold in their land as they were simply unaware of their intentions. Some of them even allied with the Spaniards and helped them defeat their local rivals - such as the Confederation of Tlaxcala versus the Aztec Empire. Not that it did them much good later on.

What if the Aztec marines were just a lost colony after the heresy that was annexed by the Crimson Fists? It would explain the rivalry between them.

Great ideas but, when I hear "shorn ones", I don't think of shaved heads....

Wow, thanks for all the input! Ok, so I think that I'll call the chapter "The Shorn Ones" so that I can actually pronounce it.

SkavenLord you gave me an idea! I still want them to be loyalist, but the idea of a marine holding a bloody heart is awesome! Like an apothecary or something after a sacrifice.
The lost colony idea could work too. Building on the history everyone has been talking about, maybe the locals invited the Crimson Fists in, and were quickly conquered. Now, even though they've accept the Imperial Truth, the grudge still lasts

Wardragoon. You made some good points for Dark Angels, some very good points... now I have 4 codices to choose from! lol

 Lynata wrote:
No mention of the Rainbow Warriors yet? I am disappoint.

Wardragoon wrote:In all fairness the technology used by the Conquistidors was about on par with necron vs. IoM

That, and the Romans didn't think too highly of foreigners, whereas many of the native American tribes freely allowed those strange visitors to establish a foothold in their land as they were simply unaware of their intentions. Some of them even allied with the Spaniards and helped them defeat their local rivals - such as the Confederation of Tlaxcala versus the Aztec Empire. Not that it did them much good later on.

Wow so you read that too! Guess I shouldn't be surprised since warhammer people seem to be pretty up to date on stuff like that. I actually never knew about Columbus and how he truly was till that.

To be fair the Aztecs subjugated peoples hated them too. You know something about being sacrificed I think. I can't remember if the Aztecs or incans were the ones that had royalty do a nasty ritual that involved piercing their genitals and leaking blood onto an altar.

Oddly enough in the class I took it seems of the French, Spanish and British the French were actually the nicest to their indian allies. Though in the end they probably considered them like most might consider children. I heard they considered them 'junior' trading partners. What I noticed about native Americans is sadly they chose just about all the losing sides of every war they were a part of. In the French and indian war they mostly chose the French and lost, in the revolutionary war most chose the british and lost and just in general they tended to get shafted in every war they took a part of. The American Indians weren't even a part of the treaty table after the French and indian war I hear.

There were also a couple indian nations that fought each other a bunch. Some were war-mongering and some weren't though they did have their rivals even before Europeans came around. Such is human nature and the competition for resources.

Usually the normal way Europeans dealt with their native American opponents was small pox (the british did it too). The Spaniards did have a way with going all around killing everything they touched though or converting it to Christianity whilst doing so.

Sorry I went on a rant and went off topic.

As far as incans go they had some method of communication that was just about as fast as modern communication if I remember correctly (like sending messages to each other). I think it had to do with birds but maybe that's just me inventing more info than there actually was. I think I also heard incans or mayans weren't as peaceful as people originally believed.

Though everybody feels very sad about what happened to the native Americans you have to kind of remember a lot of these groups had inhumane practices done to each other. That said Europeans were generally more successful and a bunch were more genocidal. Sure Columbus was probably awful but a lot of native americans did many terrible things to each other just like a lot of African tribes sold each other into slavery. I guess it depends more on the person than an entire combined people.

DkLnBr wrote:
Wow, thanks for all the input! Ok, so I think that I'll call the chapter "The Shorn Ones" so that I can actually pronounce it.

SkavenLord you gave me an idea! I still want them to be loyalist, but the idea of a marine holding a bloody heart is awesome! Like an apothecary or something after a sacrifice.
The lost colony idea could work too. Building on the history everyone has been talking about, maybe the locals invited the Crimson Fists in, and were quickly conquered. Now, even though they've accept the Imperial Truth, the grudge still lasts

Wardragoon. You made some good points for Dark Angels, some very good points... now I have 4 codices to choose from! lol

I'd say put whoever your choice commander's sidearm on his hip and greenstuff a heart into his hand, granted that might make it look a little chaosy.
Also due to ranks of chaplain in Dark Angels Codex you could go
Chaplain-Priest
Interrogator Chaplain-A High Priest
Asmodai(the big BA chaplain for darkangels)-as the supreme High Priest

Hmmm...you could totally have some chapter ritual about being paranoid over losing gene-seed (maybe they fought in a highly radioactive environment and all their gene-seeds died or they took horrible casualties to tyranids so they couldn't recover the seed or something) which causes them to extract the gene-seed of every marine as soon as it matures and keep it in storage on the chapter home-world rather than extracting it from the marines at the moment of death.

"gene seed extraction ritual" sounds a lot like "aztec heart removal sacrifice" to me...

Don't know if this'll help with the project but puppets of war makes some heads like the ones you were describing.

This actually sounds pretty badass, one of the homebrews that sounds pretty cool. Can't wait to see some pics of the progression!

This is a sick idea man always thought of how to incorporate the mayan/aztec/incas to 40k but never knew which army would capture it best.

You could model the big sun-like crown on your HQ or sergeants.

As for a symbol I think the Aztec/Mayan sun calender would be sick if you could do that.. and had the patience. A simplified version of course.

 Lynata wrote:
No mention of the Rainbow Warriors yet? I am disappoint.

Wardragoon wrote:In all fairness the technology used by the Conquistidors was about on par with necron vs. IoM

That, and the Romans didn't think too highly of foreigners, whereas many of the native American tribes freely allowed those strange visitors to establish a foothold in their land as they were simply unaware of their intentions. Some of them even allied with the Spaniards and helped them defeat their local rivals - such as the Confederation of Tlaxcala versus the Aztec Empire. Not that it did them much good later on.

The Spanish arrived in Mexico shortly after a brutal war in the region. The tribes who allied with the Spanish were the ones who just lost this war, and recognised that the Spanish could help tilt the balance in their favour - which of course they did. IIRC most advisers to the king who allied with the Spanish begged him to slaughter them.

xruslanx wrote:
i don't know if aztecs really fit the elite warrior stylings of the space marines, given that their entire country was subjigated within a year by a handful of europeans. That's from a fluff/gamepoint point of view though, if you want to do it stylistically then all power to you. Would love to see it when it's done and painted. There might be some conversation opertunities from Lizardmen, they seem very aztec in their aesthetic.

They waged war in a different way then we did . The same can be said about people from europe being unable to deal with mongols or french knights losing to mass bow fire and fortifications .

Rainbow warriors were the aztec marines GW had , but they got wiped out by sisters of battle.

This is a awesome idea but go with the geneseeds idea if you want to be a loyalist chapter.

xruslanx wrote:
i don't know if aztecs really fit the elite warrior stylings of the space marines, given that their entire country was subjigated within a year by a handful of europeans. That's from a fluff/gamepoint point of view though, if you want to do it stylistically then all power to you. Would love to see it when it's done and painted. There might be some conversation opertunities from Lizardmen, they seem very aztec in their aesthetic.

History fail. The Aztecs ruled a hegemonic empire that lasted centuries and violently subjugated all it's neighbors. The factors that lead to its conquest go far beyond the appearance of "a handful of Europeans." Your euro centrism is showing.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Blood_Jaguars Been done.

I did one a few years back, I used lots of Lizardman parts in the conversions.
No idea where it is now though..

 Zackman_88 wrote:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Blood_Jaguars Been done.

This is fanfictiony stuff, but could be worth a read for inspiration. I don't think you'd really need to write in that the chapter was left behind on a maiden world or something; the Dark Angels used to be heavily Native American themed and it wasn't because they were abandoned in Space America circa 1700.

Great idea for space marines, I really like the Aztec idea.

(just try to pronounce Quetzalcoatl)

"Tech-lah-total." Whatever.

Don't forget to convert the chainswords to obsidian blades by gluing sharp bits along the cutting axis and doing a nice smokey obsidian paint job. That would be awesome looking.

- J

Just some small contribution: both eagle and jaguar warriors were elite warriors. To become such they needed to have captured seven enemies in battle. The greatest honour was gained through subjugation and capture, slaying foes was not considered a very mentionable act.

Someone once did a drawing of a Thousand Sons sorceror in Aztec themed garb, it was pretty awesome...

 Las wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
i don't know if aztecs really fit the elite warrior stylings of the space marines, given that their entire country was subjigated within a year by a handful of europeans. That's from a fluff/gamepoint point of view though, if you want to do it stylistically then all power to you. Would love to see it when it's done and painted. There might be some conversation opertunities from Lizardmen, they seem very aztec in their aesthetic.

History fail. The Aztecs ruled a hegemonic empire that lasted centuries and violently subjugated all it's neighbors. The factors that lead to its conquest go far beyond the appearance of "a handful of Europeans." Your euro centrism is showing.

Please don't accuse me of "history fail". A handful of Europeans managed to take the Aztecs subjigated enemies, and destroy the entire Aztec empire in a single *year*. I know it's very trendy nowadays to make it seem like Cortes was a "fluke", but that's nonsense. Mesoamerican warfare before the arrival of the Spanish simply didn't involve the outright destruction of one side by the other, because neither side had the means to do so. Once the Spanish arrived, the natives that they allied with quickly realised that they would be the key to their victory, and indeed that is what happened.

Quick, call me a racist again I love it

I was actually thinking about doing the same thing a little while ago.

The name I used was: The Sons of Sotek.

The chapter symbol was a hand grabbing a heart.

Hope this helps

Lucarikx

Ever heard of the Blood Jaguars?

They have both Space Marines and Sisters variants