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Could the avatar of Khaine with "fast shot" upgrade fires twice with an icarus lascannon? or 4 shots twice (8 shots) with a quadgun?

Yes and No. It adds one not double.

On Icarus it is 2 shots

On Quad it is 5 shots

That makes perfect sense. Thank you.

It can only use the rule to fire it's own ranged weapon which does not include a gun emplacement.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
It can only use the rule to fire it's own ranged weapon which does not include a gun emplacement.

There was a thread a while ago that spent some time ago debating this. Link.
I don't believe a conclusion was reached, but it's worth reading. A lot of it came down to the use of 'his'.

_e

Usually better to take the conservative view if it's up to debate and fairly drawn. I wouldn't allow it in a pickup game.

Indeed, the previous debate devolved into various interpretations of what constituted ownership of a given weapon.

My local gaming groups have universally allowed it, on the grounds that if the weapon isn't "his" for the purposes of the shot, then "he" couldn't fire it at all, as that would constitute a model firing someone else's weapon.

 Raesvelg wrote:
Indeed, the previous debate devolved into various interpretations of what constituted ownership of a given weapon.

My local gaming groups have universally allowed it, on the grounds that if the weapon isn't "his" for the purposes of the shot, then "he" couldn't fire it at all, as that would constitute a model firing someone else's weapon.

This makes a lot of sense.

Seems familiar...

Yep, comes down to the definition of "his". The groups I play with have unanimously allowed it and I've never even needed to debate it. The only opposition to it has been on the internet in my experience.

A gun emplacement can be fired by either army. It's fair to say it's not the exarch's weapon. RAW you can't do it.

If you play it as its his weapon then you cannot fire it at all, as a gun emplacement is fired instead of his weapon. Interesting way to play it.

BRB p96 Emplaced Weapons. "All relevant special rules from the firing model and the weapon are used."

This is referring to buildings and p97 clearly references an Icarus lascannon as an emplaced weapon. I can't see why this wouldn't apply to one with an ADL as well as it is still classed as a gun emplacement.

I think they should have reiterated this on P105 in the section on gun emplacements though to make it clear.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
BRB p96 Emplaced Weapons. "All relevant special rules from the firing model and the weapon are used."

This is referring to buildings and p97 clearly references an Icarus lascannon as an emplaced weapon. I can't see why this wouldn't apply to one with an ADL as well as it is still classed as a gun emplacement.

I think they should have reiterated this on P105 in the section on gun emplacements though to make it clear.

The Icarus Lascannon is not an emplaced weapon, it is a weapon emplacement.

BRB p97. "The bastion also has several emplaced weapons: a heavy bolter on each facing and an Icarus lascannon on the roof."

I'd say that was pretty clear.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
BRB p97. "The bastion also has several emplaced weapons: a heavy bolter on each facing and an Icarus lascannon on the roof."

I'd say that was pretty clear.

Page 116 (the actual datasheet for Bastions):
Weapons: Four emplaced heavy bolters.

Options:
Add one of the following:
- Gun emplacement with Icarus Lascannon......

Why did they give them such similar names?
If we got £1 for every time someone mixed the two up, we could end world dept (or make rich people richer, which is more likely where it would go).

You're getting confused. A gun emplacement is the actual weapon emplacement. The emplaced weapon is the actual weapon emplaced within it i.e. a lascannon or quad gun.

Gun emplacement with Icarus lascannon. The "with" makes it clear they are separate things. Emplacement means the space where something is located, in this case the emplaced weapon.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
You're getting confused. A gun emplacement is the actual weapon emplacement. The emplaced weapon is the actual weapon emplaced within it i.e. a lascannon or quad gun.

Gun emplacement with Icarus lascannon. The "with" makes it clear they are separate things. Emplacement means the space where something is located, in this case the emplaced weapon.

And a Gun Emplacement has its own rules that are located on page 105.

Indeed it does. It also doesn't change the fact that the weapon emplaced within it is an emplaced weapon.

It does change the fact, they're different things.
An Quad gun for example does NOT have access to the "auto-fire" rule, that a Bastions Emplaced Heavy Bolter would.

 grendel083 wrote:
It does change the fact, they're different things.
An Quad gun for example does NOT have access to the "auto-fire" rule, that a Bastions Emplaced Heavy Bolter would.

I can't find that reference. Where does it say that?

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
It does change the fact, they're different things.
An Quad gun for example does NOT have access to the "auto-fire" rule, that a Bastions Emplaced Heavy Bolter would.

I can't find that reference. Where does it say that?

A reference that says it's one of these, not one of those? You'll never find one of those. But you will find a reference saying what it is.

p114 Aegis Defence Line
Add one of the following:
Gun Emplacement with Quad Gun

p105 Gun Emplacements
All the rules for using it are there. Not once are Emplaced Weapons mentioned in relation to a Gun Emplacement (which are a feature of buildings).
They're different things (with similar names). Auto-Fire is a feature of Emplaced Weapons, so is not a part of the Gun Emplacement rules.

As pointed out previously the Bastion has both Emplaced Weapons (heavy bolters) and the option for a Gun Emplacement.
A Fortress has only Emplaced Weapons.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
It does change the fact, they're different things.
An Quad gun for example does NOT have access to the "auto-fire" rule, that a Bastions Emplaced Heavy Bolter would.

I can't find that reference. Where does it say that?

A reference that says it's one of these, not one of those? You'll never find one of those. But you will find a reference saying what it is.

p114 Aegis Defence Line
Add one of the following:
Gun Emplacement with Quad Gun

p105 Gun Emplacements
All the rules for using it are there. Not once are Emplaced Weapons mentioned in relation to a Gun Emplacement (which are a feature of buildings).
They're different things (with similar names). Auto-Fire is a feature of Emplaced Weapons, so is not a part of the Gun Emplacement rules.

As pointed out previously the Bastion has both Emplaced Weapons (heavy bolters) and the option for a Gun Emplacement.
A Fortress has only Emplaced Weapons.

I do see your point, but on p97 it clearly refers to an icarus lascannon as an emplaced weapon.

Perhaps the lascannon becomes an emplaced weapon if it is in a building, but not in an ADL.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
I do see your point, but on p97 it clearly refers to an icarus lascannon as an emplaced weapon.

That could easily be a generic bastion used as neutral terrain, not a purchased fortification.

Fact is, if you purchase a lascannon for a bastion, you're purchasing a Gun Emplacement, not an Emplaced Weapon. The Bastions datasheet is very clear on what you're buying. Nothing lets it change from one to the other.

It's still a gun emplacement WITH AN ICARUS LASCANNON.

Also, this FAQ is relevant:

BRB FAQ v1.5, p9 wrote:
Q: Can a unit occupying a Bastion manually fire a gun emplacement (eg. quad gun) on the Bastion's roof? (p116)?
A: No - a model must be in base contact to manually fire a gun emplacement, therefore the unit must be on the Bastion's roof.

Also of note is the section regarding auto-fire in the BRB, p96:
"If a building is occupied...". Battlements aren't buildings, therefore the Icarus/Quad can never utilise auto-fire, since the gun emplacements are never "in" a building. The same applies to the ADL upgrade--no building, no auto-fire.