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I am an Eldar player, and as such LOVE the avatar and the fluff around how they work. I really want to take one in my iyanden list in place of a wraith lord, but I'm curious as to people's thoughts about him?

If I take him, I will run him with at least fast shot, perhaps with monster hunter too. But with a unit so biased towards combat, will he be worth his points in 6th? Or an expensive bullet magnet that will not make combat?

As a non eldar player I do not fear the avatar. He goes down much easier than wraithknights. If I see my opponent has an avatar in his list it pleases me because those points could have been spent on something far more threatening

 somecallmeJack wrote:
As a non eldar player I do not fear the avatar. He goes down much easier than wraithknights. If I see my opponent has an avatar in his list it pleases me because those points could have been spent on something far more threatening

Like more Guardians.

So you really think that the Avatar is not at all threatening? Surely he is a little frightening? He can't be that poor?

I think the Avatar can be very threatening in an elder monster mash list at 2k points. HQs being the Avatar, forge world wraithseer, a spiritseer and a farseer with wraithstone. Troops being wraithguard in wave serpents. Heavy being 3 wraithlords with shooty options, and you could even ally in a Dark Eldar Talos or a Tau Riptide.

This gives the enemy no easy thing to shoot at. The Avatar is crazy good in close combat, take him in any combination of these powers, all are helpful. Fast shot, battle fortune, crushing blow, monster hunter, disarming strike. I personally like just having fast shot (2 auto hitting melta? yes please!) and sometimes take battle fortune, but I've had great fun with a battle fortune disarming strike avatar charging into Lysander and robbing his hammer.

Other people like him to keep there footdar in place, some even like him to fire an ADL mounted las cannon. I like him because he simply adds another monsterous creature, and extra ones of those are always fun!

Well, if I add him in, my 2k list includes 2 wraithknights, 2 wraith lords, and him. That's quite a monster mass I think. I didn't think he could take battle fortune? I was going to take fast shot and marksmans eye. Precision hitting with that weapon on 5's is horrendous!

Well, take him if you want. All I know is that he goes down to plasma much easier than wraith lords in my opinion

He does, you are right. BUT with him not being my warlord, not being a troop choice, and with 4 other MC's on the board, I don't think he'll fall victim to concentrated fire power? Unless my opponent really has a personal vendetta!

To be honest, his Invuln save being nerfed to a 5++ hurt him a lot. He just gets raped by Lascannon fire and they can wait a turn, maybe even two before he gets into range to throw his spear. This means they can fire turn 1 or 2 on other things that might be shooting right away (Wraithlords and Wraithknights). Then when he does get close enough, plasma can finish him off.

Avatar is also fighting against a very good HQ selection (not counting FW stuff). If you use Wraithguard, you want a Spiritseer. Eldrad is still a boss and a second Farseer is a damn good option. I can even see a argument for a loaded up Autarch if your list is Warp Spider and Swooping Hawks heavy or you have units coming in from Reserve (War Walkers). Then if your using the Iyanden book, you have a few other HQ options, specially if your spamming MCs.

It largely depends on how you intend to use the Avatar. If you are taking large Guardian Defender blobs and advancing them, he is incredibly valuable. 40 fearless guardians advancing with an Avatar in the middle is surprisingly annoying, but be careful, as they can be thinned out relatively quickly if your opponent decides to focus on them. Make sure your opponent has other, more pressing targets such as a WK or two, WS with fire dragons or wraithguard, that sort of thing. If the blob reaches firing range, that means the Avatar is likely close to assault range too.

I personally think using an Avatar in a Monster Mash list is kind of overkill, and a farseer offering psychic support is more effective. The Avatar will be the only MC that is actually trying to advance and get into assault, so its unlikely he will be ignored for long enough to actually get into assault.

Similar to last edition, the value of the Avatar is in his Fearless bubble. His CC stats are impressive and he can counter assault but keep him out of Line of Site and wait for CC.

A bigger hit to the Avatar imo is how much harder it is to get Fortune now.

As a Salamander player who never fields plasma when he could have more melta, the Avatar is definitely a monkeywrench in my works. I tend to put him high on the Assault Terminator priority list.

A slow, fragile MC isn't worth taking? Color me shocked.

The key to taking an AoK is Plasma shots or Las Cannons. If you got plenty of either you can put him down before he gets to ya. If not, then you still got a shot with Krak missiles. If you don't have those either, he will hurt you.

While I enjoy the Avatar, he usually does not see action until 2K games, as the first detachment HQ slots go to Farseers.

I have had some ideas of fielding two Avatars, 2 Farsers, and 20 Warlocks...but I need the money to buy more Warlocks and a second Avatar.

It's funny...people see the Avatar and immediately assume he is my Warlord, not the cowardly Farseer hiding right behind him and the rest of the Council.

The avatar is a distraction carnifex on steroids. He serves largely the same purpose, but is faster, tougher, shootier and more expensive. The fearless bubble is also some utility, and so is the fast shot/icarus combo. Deep down he is a target to draw fire, and CC powerhouse.

Against some armies like sisters or salamanders he is a nightmare by ignoring all of the fire weapons. Other armies like IG will just lascannon em off the table.

Not as good as he used to be without fortune or eternal warrior, he still can be used to effect. In an MC heavy list, he is both a target and redundancy. Even to protect serpents, by drawing fire he takes fire off the rest of the list. The forward push supported by long range dakka is a pretty strong combo.

The avatar is very good, but is simply overshadowed by the necessity to get psychic powers. There is also the mantle autarch that hits just about as hard but is much faster and arguably more survivable. The nerf to his inv and the bump up in price really hurt (Unused MC? Lets increase the price in the new codex!). But the most annoying thing to me is the removal of the heavy flamer on his weapon. 2 shot heavy flamer would have been nice. As it is, the 2 shot melta with battle focus is OK, but most of what the avatar is charging isnt all that worried about 2 melta shots.

I'm sensing that although loved, he is deemed far to expensive for what he brings to the table...or lack of!

It's the same it's always been.. Avatar has cool stats but he's slow and you need a Farseer. This has been the pattern since 3rd edition.

Fearless bubble is actually more of a hindrance than a benefit. Okay, yeah I won't run but then the guardians die because their main purpose is to go to ground in area terrain so they won't die. I rather take LD checks and have a chance to be on the board at the end of the game.. rather than never fail a LD check and die miserably.

The Avatar now sits on a shelf with every single other CC oriented Eldar unit I own (except warlock jetbikes).. and honestly they've been on that shelf for probably 3 editions now anyway. GW has no idea how to make CC eldar units playable.

Agreed. I thought the avatar may be an exception with his immense WS and initiative. But I did sense that getting him there would be an issue! I have a lot of luck in CC with wraithknights, but I have to pick my targets! But then they have a chance of getting there in a couple of turns as they are jump MC! I did also think the cost was a bit excessive, with him only having a 5++ he seems a little less survivable. Especially when compare to a WK. The difference in toughness alone seems to make a difference and be worth the points!

I use a large Beastpack, 3 Talos', a Wraithknight, and an Avatar. Under those circumstances, he's great. The Avatar takes one flank, and the Wraithknight the other, with the Talos' directly behind the Beastpack in the center. My opponent can't kill everything, and usually thinks the Avatar and Wraithknight are the biggest threats, letting me get to his lines with everything else. I have yet to face Grav Guns, however, and cringe at the thought of having multiple MCs drop per turn without even factoring in heavy weapons.

In a traditional Eldar army, I would think he is easily targeted and shot down before he can do anything, though. I don't think he would be a good way of absorbing fire from Wave Serpents when you could just get two more Wave Serpents for his cost.