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Thanks.

Yup.

 grrrfranky wrote:
Yup.

Thought so, just wanted to be sure. Thanks.

Dedicated transports are still a unit, and so count as for the "first unit destroyed" criteria

The first blood rule states that the first unit to be "removed as a casualty" grants first blood.

vehicles, going on the wrecked and damage table descriptions are only ever "destroyed", not "removed as casualties"

Where as a unit that has wounds allocated to it are removed as casualties

So does a vehicle, of any type, grant first blood?

Yes, it does.

DOOMONYOU wrote:
The first blood rule states that the first unit to be "removed as a casualty" grants first blood.

vehicles, going on the wrecked and damage table descriptions are only ever "destroyed", not "removed as casualties"

Where as a unit that has wounds allocated to it are removed as casualties

So does a vehicle, of any type, grant first blood?

If you really want to get technical the rules say the first unit that gets removed as a casualty... The only way for this to happen is for sweeping advance or falling back off the board, as Models are removed as casualties not units except for the two cases I just mentioned.

Yes.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that first blood means the first unit removed whether vehicle or infantry etc. But can you support the yes answer with references? In case this is brought up by TFG, so i can ram it back down his throat.

No, the literal RAW does read that way.
What army does he play? There's tons of ways to use literal RAW and show that things aren't always what they intended.

DOOMONYOU wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I agree that first blood means the first unit removed whether vehicle or infantry etc. But can you support the yes answer with references? In case this is brought up by TFG, so i can ram it back down his throat.

The Strict RAW reads like this:

The rules say the first unit that gets removed as a casualty (122)... The only way for this to happen is for sweeping advance (26-27) or falling back off the board (30), as Models are removed as casualties (15 & 25) not units except for the two cases I just mentioned.

Check the page numbers for the connected rules.

actually the whole rule for first blood includes the words destroyed, so it doesn't matter in what context you try to throw it out there, the first thing that is removed from the board as a result of an attack scores the first blood condition.

P122 for the First Blood Rule. read the whole thing not just what's in bold.

 nutty_nutter wrote:
actually the whole rule for first blood includes the words destroyed, so it doesn't matter in what context you try to throw it out there, the first thing that is removed from the board as a result of an attack scores the first blood condition.

P122 for the First Blood Rule. read the whole thing not just what's in bold.

And strict RAW it says that the first unit removed (Or destroyed) the only way for a UNIT to get removed (Or destroyed) is through SA or Falling back off the board edge as units are not removed (Or destroyed) in any other situation than those two. Models can be removed (Or destroyed) but that is not the same as having a unit removed (Or destroyed).

But if every single model in a unit is Destroyed, would the Unit not be considered Destroyed?

 grendel083 wrote:
But if every single model in a unit is Destroyed, would the Unit not be considered Destroyed?

Since there are no rules stating that is the case, No.

A better wording would have been:

'If all of the models in a unit are destroyed or removed as a casualty then the opposing player counts as winning the First Blood Objective at the end of the game, Only count the first unit removed in such a manner for the First Blood Objective.'' (This would cover everything, and make sense).

what about vehicles that are wrecked?

 DJGietzen wrote:
what about vehicles that are wrecked?

That's effectively the same question I was asking. A vehicle is usually a unit comprised of a single model. If all models are destroyed, is the unit also counted as destroyed?
Wrecked is described as destroyed.

yes as it is a unit

 grendel083 wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:
what about vehicles that are wrecked?

That's effectively the same question I was asking. A vehicle is usually a unit comprised of a single model. If all models are destroyed, is the unit also counted as destroyed?

@grendel083:
I can not find any rules that say that, if there are please point me to them.

@DJGietzen:
Well wrecked = destroyed, it is on page 74 under the wrecked vehicles section.

No I can't point them out, hence why I was asking