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What are peoples views upon the results of the exact wordings in the codex when it comes to for example the Sororitas Command Squad and the Repentias? If we are to follow what is written on page 18, the Command Squad will acutally receive Fleet and Move through cover when the unit "strikes blows" in the assault phase meaning that they will have no effect on the actual movement of the unit. And Repentias will get a nice 3+ FNP activated at initiative 1, i.e. AFTER the enemy has most likely killed them all. But perhaps this was a deliberate nerf since Repentias have been dominating the tournament scene lately...

Agusto

Yeah, another bonehead move on GWs part. Unlike the movement and shooting phases, there are actually two steps to an assault phase, the charge, and then the fight... unbelievable... I'm guessing it should have read "or makes a charge in the Assault phase"

it would be nice to have acts of faith work when a battle conclave joins a unit. a priest with a battle conclave can still join a unit, right? can HQ, like ST Celestine for example, use both their profile warlord trait and a warlord trait on the warlord trait table?

Agusto wrote:
What are peoples views upon the results of the exact wordings in the codex when it comes to for example the Sororitas Command Squad and the Repentias? If we are to follow what is written on page 18, the Command Squad will acutally receive Fleet and Move through cover when the unit "strikes blows" in the assault phase meaning that they will have no effect on the actual movement of the unit. And Repentias will get a nice 3+ FNP activated at initiative 1, i.e. AFTER the enemy has most likely killed them all. But perhaps this was a deliberate nerf since Repentias have been dominating the tournament scene lately...

Agusto

Just learn to read... Eternal Crusade: "This Act of Faith can be used in your Assault phase." Nowhere does it tell that it MUST be used before you strike blows. The Act of Faith entry:

"A unit with the Act of Faith special rule can attempt to use its Act of Faith immediately before
it acts during a phase; i.e. immediately before the unit moves in the Movement phase, shoots
(or runs) in the Shooting phase, or strikes blows in the Assault phase. To do so, the unit must
take a Leadership test."

I hope you do release, that i.e. mean "in example" and lists various ways when it CAN be used.

I hope you do release, that i.e. mean "in example" and lists various ways when it CAN be used.

Don't want to sound cheesy, but I always knew that i.e. was the latin "id est" (= that is). Other than that, the "examples present a quite complete list.. If it was just an example, it could have had a single entry... Why all the possibilities but one?

examples are not a complete list

As above - by using i.e. they are stating this is not an exhaustive list.

No issue

And this what makes me think that Cruddace, or who ever wrote this, has made a mistake and mixed up i.e. with e.g. Had it said e.g. then a Command squad could actually have used Fleet the way it says in their unit entry to get into combat instead of making a normal charge and then afterwards get Fleet and all the other stuff, and Repentias could get FNP before they take their wounds.

But I am sure we will get a FAQ sometimes around spring 2016.

Agusto

Agusto wrote:
And this what makes me think that Cruddace, or who ever wrote this, has made a mistake and mixed up i.e. with e.g. Had it said e.g. then a Command squad could actually have used Fleet the way it says in their unit entry to get into combat instead of making a normal charge and then afterwards get Fleet and all the other stuff, and Repentias could get FNP before they take their wounds.

But I am sure we will get a FAQ sometimes around spring 2016.

Agusto

It looks like you're the one who's mixed up ie. and eg. Since it says "ie.," that means there are other times to use the AoF: "A unit with the Act of Faith special rule can attempt to use its Act of Faith immediately before it acts during a phase." Immediately before it charges in the Assault phase, the Command squad can use its AoF to gain Fleet. There's no problem there, and no FAQ/Errata necessary.
In the exact same manner, immediately before they declare a charge (and charging is a type of action), the Repentias can use their AoF to gain FNP.

It seems unbroken from the rules that folks have posted here. I'm not seeing all the rules, though, so maybe there's more to it that is confusing....

Using "i.e." denotes a complete list of possible situations. For clarification, see the Internets (e.g., here, or here, for more humor).

 Janthkin wrote:
Using "i.e." denotes a complete list of possible situations. For clarification, see the Internets (e.g., here, or here, for more humor).

This. Unfortunately, i.e. is used when restating something while e.g. is used for examples (e.g., he won the game, i.e., he had more victory points).

how about the rule: broad rules vs. specific rules

shadowsfm wrote:
how about the rule: broad rules vs. specific rules

Only applies when a specific contradiction occurs.

Best solution: everyone in the thread email gamefaqs@gwplc.com about this. The more who write in the more likely it is to eventually get updated.

Well, whenever they actually bother to update that is.

hate when someone other then the author writes an FAQ and gets it wrong

shadowsfm wrote:
hate when someone other then the author writes an FAQ and gets it wrong

Fair enough, but it's the only way we can really force a resolution to this matter other than house ruling it.

shadowsfm wrote:
hate when someone other then the author writes an FAQ and gets it wrong

Is it OK when the author writes an FAQ and gets it wrong? ( )

Even if you could use the repentia AoF before charging, the AoF wouldn't help you if you were locked in combat with an opponent with a higher initiative (everyone except guardsmen and necrons) as you could only use it before the repentia act in that phase.

I really wonder why GW didn't just say "At the start of the X phase...". Would've been easier on them.

this act of faith starts at the beginning of the assault phase, the phase has two sub phases, you can use it in both

And Repentias will get a nice 3+ FNP activated at initiative 1, i.e. AFTER the enemy has most likely killed them all. But perhaps this was a deliberate nerf since Repentias have been dominating the tournament scene lately...

Agusto

Intentional? Really? To only give us FNP against people that hit at I 1?
Do you know who hits at I 1? People with weapons that diouble their strength. We're not allowed to post stats, but let's just say a repentia's toughness inpresses no one outside of her close family. Basically anyone that we can activate it against has instant death against us which you're not allowed to take FNP against. It's as laughable as the fleet after the charge has been made.

 Purifier wrote:
Intentional? Really? To only give us FNP against people that hit at I 1?
Do you know who hits at I 1?

Everyone charging through difficult terrain without assault grenades? Anyone with a weapon that's Unwieldy (like an Axe)?

 Janthkin wrote:

 Purifier wrote:
Intentional? Really? To only give us FNP against people that hit at I 1?
Do you know who hits at I 1?

Everyone charging through difficult terrain without assault grenades? Anyone with a weapon that's Unwieldy (like an Axe)?

Ok, so I was working a bit with hyperbole, but still. Axes are mostly characters of different types, so it's still very limiting. What I'm saying is that it becomes only a part of a fraction that the unit's only hoipe for survival can even be used against.
It's a melee unit without a single shooting weapon that has to weather fire using a low toughness and a 6+ save, in an army without any assault vehicles, using weapons that make them strike last in most situations with a once per game use chance of survival, and you think it's intentional that it can only be used against stuff like Tau and IG, and if the superior has died not even there?
It seems a bit extreme to me.

 Purifier wrote:

 Janthkin wrote:

 Purifier wrote:
Intentional? Really? To only give us FNP against people that hit at I 1?
Do you know who hits at I 1?

Everyone charging through difficult terrain without assault grenades? Anyone with a weapon that's Unwieldy (like an Axe)?

Ok, so I was working a bit with hyperbole, but still. Axes are mostly characters of different types, so it's still very limiting. What I'm saying is that it becomes only a part of a fraction that the unit's only hoipe for survival can even be used against.
It's a melee unit without a single shooting weapon that has to weather fire using a low toughness and a 6+ save, in an army without any assault vehicles, using weapons that make them strike last in most situations with a once per game use chance of survival, and you think it's intentional that it can only be used against stuff like Tau and IG, and if the superior has died not even there?
It seems a bit extreme to me.

Tau, IG, Necrons, Tyranids, Daemons, Orks, some flavors of Eldar....

Grenades aren't as common as they used to be.

 Purifier wrote:
Intentional? Really? To only give us FNP against people that hit at I 1?

Technically, you would use this at I3 as long as the Mistress is still alive.

Not that it makes Repentia not terrible now or anything, but at least you'd get it against orks! (for one round out of the whole game)

Act of Faith and Martyrdom - with priests being made almost mandatory for the CC boosts it's a bit disheartenining to notice they lack the AoF rule. An AS unit with a priest can never benefit from Martyrdom.

Spetulhu wrote:
Act of Faith and Martyrdom - with priests being made almost mandatory for the CC boosts it's a bit disheartenining to notice they lack the AoF rule. An AS unit with a priest can never benefit from Martyrdom.

AoF specifies it still works if a unit has AoF or Hymms so you can still use AoF when a priest is attached.

RAI and RAW allow them to use it in the assault phase, before blows are struck.

which does in fact include the beginning of the assault phase in its timing, so long as its used before blows there is now breaking of RAW, so yes it does actually benifit them.

You're missing the word "immediately" in your timing though. "Immediately before striking blows" does not include at the beginning of the phase.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Purifier wrote:
Intentional? Really? To only give us FNP against people that hit at I 1?

Technically, you would use this at I3 as long as the Mistress is still alive.

Not that it makes Repentia not terrible now or anything, but at least you'd get it against orks! (for one round out of the whole game)

I did cover that in the post after that one, but the misstress has the worst combat potential and the best save in the group. She'd be a shoe-in for soaking up bullet wounds, except then we're at i1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus, who would bring repentias to kill guardsmen? You want them to take down Terminators and other 2+ save rabble.

All stuff with i4.

 streamdragon wrote:
You're missing the word "immediately" in your timing though. "Immediately before striking blows" does not include at the beginning of the phase.

no i am not missing it,

"A unit with the Act of Faith special rule can attempt to use its Act of Faith immediately before
it acts during a phase; i.e. immediately before the unit moves in the Movement phase, shoots
(or runs) in the Shooting phase, or strikes blows in the Assault phase. To do so, the unit must
take a Leadership test."

just because it gives examples, does not make those examples the ONLY examples possible...

they have permission to use the AOF immediately before they act during a phase, and are given some (not all) examples of this permission in use, that doesnt preclude them from using it immediately before declaring charges (acting) in the assault phase.

besides which, they have already acted that phase, even before blows are struck, because they charged as an act hence using it just before striking blows is not actually using it "immediately before it acts during a phase" as all the blows happen in the
fight sub phase, well after all the actions from the charge sub phase are completed.

which is why that specific example, is one for when you are already IN combat, and charges are not the first action, blows are. they could have given a specific example for when you have to charge still, but did not. that they did not include an example for EVERY SINGLE ACTION, does not disallow AOF before those actions. SO long as they use their AOF "immediately before [they] acts during a phase" then they are following the rules.

if you read a list of examples as a list of the only cases in which it can be used, that is understandable, but not correct, as there are plenty of actions, such as arriving from deepstrike/reserves in the movement phase, that come before moving, that are still "actions" but are not on the list of examples.

the actual RULE is

immediately before
it acts during a phase

the example RE assault is given where blows ARE the first act, some assault phases, charges are the first act. so long as the AOF happens before whatever is the first action, you are OK by the rules. examples are just examples, they are not the rule itself, they are examples of it in use, and are not exhaustive by any means.


the REAL argument we should be having is weather or not they use the AOF before arriving from deepstrike or not....