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Okay guys, the codex has been out for a little while now and I wanted to get your opinion on this.

What do you say is the strongest unit overall in each force org slot and why? I will start....

HQ:
Chapter Master on a Bike with TH + Shield Eternal, AA. This guy is really tough and really scary in close combat. 4 Wounds, T5 with 4 base attacks plus hammer of wrath. Orbital Bombardment can be strong as well.

Elites:
Sternguard. I think these guys offer a lot with their flexibility. They can pop tanks with meltas, or reduce horde to nothing with some heavy flamers and combi-flamers. They can fill whatever roll you need in your army. However, I don’t think it’s a good idea to run all combi though, it gets too expensive.

Troops:
Bike Squads. I am throwing bikes in the list of troops because if you take a chapter master he unlocks them as troops of 5 or more. Two grav and a combi grav on bikes is really scary. Especially if you are white scars.

Fast Attack:
Stormtalons: A decent amount of shooting with their missiles, flyer, not too expensive, fragile though. Solid anti-air unit.

Heavy Support:
Toss up on this one. TFCs and Dev Cents.
TFCs: Their barrage is amazing if it hits and is really cheap for what they can do in my opinion.
Cents: Grav Amps are brutal. You just need to support them. A lot of people are running a mini death star with these guys. Example: CM, Cents, Tigurius. Basically you can get rerolling to hit, rerolling to wound, ignore cover. Really can be brutal.

If you're using Forgeworld, take a look at Space Marine Sentry Turrets. For 35 points, you can get a BS3 T6 W2 artillery piece with a krak missile that rerolls hits against flyers and skimmers.

Arguably the best Heavy Support option in the game right now. (Imperial Guard Artillery Carriages are close contenders, though.)

I want to add regular Imperial fist devs to the heavy support section.

It does depend on your local meta but in conjunction with a ADL quad or Las, can make for some scary anti air and anti tank.

Seems correct to me, there will be different builds that put certain units over other ones, i.e. rhino spam tac squads ultra marines, iron fists dred spam, drop pod armies with assault/tac squads.

Also calgar Ultramarines are strong you would change to

HQ
Calgar

Elites
Sterguard

Troops
Tac Squads

Fast Attack
Stormtalons

Heavy Support
Devestator squads with missile launchers

Thunderfire cannon

There are also Stormraven Spam lists that would change heavy to Stormravens

With your current setup of "best" units i would say sterguard are the odd man out, bikes with a master, talons and thunderfire cannons are very synergistic while sterguard don't fit super well.

You gotta give some credit to Varro Tigerious. If your running ultramarines, hes bank.

Well HQs are all over the place.

Personally I like command squads for the HQ. as a big bike base with a but load of grav is nice. and they can be unlocked with a few things amongst all the chapters i wanna put my hat in for the humble captain on a bike with relics to taste.

But as named HQs go tigger is a wonderful thing.

Kemp wrote:

Chapter Master on a Bike with TH + Shield Eternal, AA. This guy is really tough and really scary in close combat. 4 Wounds, T5 with 4 base attacks plus hammer of wrath. Orbital Bombardment can be strong as well.

Do you know what sounds even scarier? Let's crank up your HQ a bit:
Add an Artificer Armour to your Chapter Master, and use Iron Hands detachment. You've got yourself a mean, big son of a biscuit with 2+/3++, T5, 6+ FNP, Eternal Warrior, and It Will Not Die. Emphasising the last rule: IT. WILL. NOT. DIE. (at least easily, unless your dice rolling arm is cursed and you toss tons of 1's in a row).

Now that will cost you points, but heck, imagine. That dude can turn almost anything into a pulp your opponent throws at it! Death Company or other huge-hitting masses can cause a problem, but at least they're in a tarpit, while your other important units are doing their job in peace, since your Chapter Master is absorbing wounds like a boss.

AA is artificer armor. But yeah that is one scary model.

I don't see how people like tac marines more then scouts... just me though

 theblessing8386 wrote:
I don't see how people like tac marines more then scouts... just me though

The BS3 and 4+ save are the deal-breakers. The difference between BS3 and BS4 and Sv4+ and Sv3+ is huge.

Crusader Squads eat Tacticals for breakfast though. The only thing Tacticals have going for them is Combat Squads and not having to buy a Sergeant if you want a combi-weapon.

HQ: Chapter Master on bike
Elite: Assault Termies
Troops: Tactical or BT Crusaders
FA: Stormtalon
HS: Dev. Centurii.

my HQ is always a Captain, most versitile,

Elites, got to be Sternguard.

Troops, Tactical Squads.

Fast Attack,: well for me Its got to be land speeder squadron..

heavy support, devestator squad or vindicator

these are just my favourites.. other choices may work better but im always open to feedback

I don't think there is a 'strongest' out of every slot -- but there are the 'top' out of each slot.
These are my opinions based upon my games with them thus far, and might not reflect your games.

HQ:
- Chapter Master
- Varro Tigurius
- Honor Guard

Elite:
- Sternguard
- LotD (if your playing with Vulcan)

Troops:
- BT Crusaders (If your spamming bodies)
- Bikes

Fast Attack:
- Stormtalon

Heavy Support:
- Stormraven (depending on build)
- TFC

 labmouse42 wrote:
I don't think there is a 'strongest' out of every slot -- but there are the 'top' out of each slot.
These are my opinions based upon my games with them thus far, and might not reflect your games.

HQ:
- Chapter Master
- Varro Tigurius
- Honor Guard

Elite:
- Sternguard
- LotD (if your playing with Vulcan)

Troops:
- BT Crusaders (If your spamming bodies)
- Bikes

Fast Attack:
- Stormtalon

Heavy Support:
- Stormraven (depending on build)
- TFC

I'd be willing to constest you on the Honor guard. Is that 2+ really better than a SS+FnP?

 McNinja wrote:
I'd be willing to constest you on the Honor guard. Is that 2+ really better than a SS+FnP?

It's a matter points efficiency. 5 command squad members with power weapons, storm shields, and apothicary is 240 points. That's 48 points per model. You could kit your command squad out with grav guns and bikes, but then they get even more expensive -- and could be done more effectively with just bike squads.

The thing that make honor guard good is that they are cheap. 25 points gives you a model with a 2+ save that will actually be more durable vs small arms fire than the command squad -- even with FNP. That's because the 2+ save is failed half as often as a 3+ save.

In a way, you can look at honor guard as being as durable as normal 3+ marines for 12.5 points. They are more durable to specific kinds of weapons (helldrakes, MLs, etc) and are less durable to AP2 weapons.

Point for point, honor guard will produce less shots than equal amounts of tactical marines with bolters, but are much more nasty in assault due to power weapons. Given that you can mix power mauls and power axes, you can have a variety of different things you can effect.

I've tried squads of honor guard a few times now, and I've been impressed with the results.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
I'd be willing to constest you on the Honor guard. Is that 2+ really better than a SS+FnP?

It's a matter points efficiency. 5 command squad members with power weapons, storm shields, and apothicary is 240 points. That's 48 points per model. You could kit your command squad out with grav guns and bikes, but then they get even more expensive -- and could be done more effectively with just bike squads.

The thing that make honor guard good is that they are cheap. 25 points gives you a model with a 2+ save that will actually be more durable vs small arms fire than the command squad -- even with FNP. That's because the 2+ save is failed half as often as a 3+ save.

In a way, you can look at honor guard as being as durable as normal 3+ marines for 12.5 points. They are more durable to specific kinds of weapons (helldrakes, MLs, etc) and are less durable to AP2 weapons.

Point for point, honor guard will produce less shots than equal amounts of tactical marines with bolters, but are much more nasty in assault due to power weapons. Given that you can mix power mauls and power axes, you can have a variety of different things you can effect.

I've tried squads of honor guard a few times now, and I've been impressed with the results.

Interesting. Though one reason I like the Command Squad is their ability to take Special Weapons.

In the analysis I've ran, the command squad has roughly the same RPP (resilience per point) compared to bike squads, except when shot by weapons that deny FnP.

Bike Squad
133.3333333 IG lasgun
49.99750012 bolter
13.33320003 PG
19.99980004 autocannon
13.33320003 LC

Command Squad
128.5714286 IG lasgun
48.21187512 bolter
12.85701431 PG
19.28552147 autocannon
8.571342875 LC

Damage Per Point
Their DPP (Damage per Point)values are also very similar vs MEQ and TEQ, but fail vs GEQ.
Bike Squad
37.03703704 GEQ
26.9360202 MEQ
20.2020202 TEQ

Command Squad
18.34215168 GEQ
26.80775873 MEQ
21.86948854 TEQ

Summary
Are command squads worth it?
- They are slightly more dangerous in assault
- They are not scoring.
- They have a smaller footprint (per point) than bike squads
- They are only 1 unit instead of 1.5 units (ie, less contesting ability - less overkill can be wasted, etc.)
- Weaker GEQ killing power may be bad if your facing lots of guardians, etc
- They will have better odds vs tanks and MCs
- They have no ablative bodies to lose without impacting firepower capacity. Bike squads can lose 3 models before this happens.
So are they worth it? That really depends on you. Personally I like to bring more bikes squads and spend those extra points on support elements. That does not mean command squads are bad -- its just a preference.