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Hey all, I just started WFB and am picking up Wood Elves, who seem the best in play style to complement Dark Eldar from 40k.

That said, here's my list. I'd love as much C&C as you've got. Please, lemme know how I should be list building differently or how I should be playing this army differently.

Lords
Spellweaver - lv 4, Power Stone, Obsidian Lodestone, Longbow - 325

Core
Glade Guard (10) - Banner of Eternal Flame - 147
Glade Guard (10) - Musician - 126
Scouts (5) - 85
Dryads (8) - 108

Special
Wardancers (5) - 90
Wardancers (5) - 90
Treekin (3) - 195

Rare
Great Eagle - 50
Treeman - 285

Thanks for reading, good hunting!

What point level is this for?

Also ballsy choice on picking WE for your first army. They're probably the weakest book in fantasy right now, and winning with them requires the deft touch of an extremely competent general. You'll lose a LOT of games to start with, but stick in there and you'll learn some stuff for sure.

(Also keep in mind that your book is likely getting redone next april/may or somewhere thereabouts. So they'll probably release a whole plethora of new models, and invalidate many of the choices you've currently made for your army.)

This is for 1500 points. I like finesse armies and I like playing to learn, not playing to win. I have a good group of friends gamers at my store so I'm not terribly worried about feeling like gak for losing. I also tend to mop people up with my Dark Eldar, so this will be an important lesson in humility and game tactics.

Any thoughts on the list?

Actually, this looks pretty solid!

I'd say Scouts are a bit expensive, and Wardancers are not very effective (compare to Dryads).

The only things I could suggest to add would be a small unit of Waywatchers and/or a Noble with the Hail of Doom Arrow and So-and-So's Bane, the magic bow. It's a pretty common occurrence in most Wood Elf lists.

Yeah, the scouts didn't make up their points aside from bubble wrapping the Spellweaver. I liked the Wardancers a ton. They slammed hard into the flank of some Cold One Riders and ate up a ton of armor after Wildform and Charging.

I could see them being pretty lame in sustained assault though.

Yeah, I can't take waywatchers and a Treeman at 1500. :(

Correct me if I'm wrong, but War Dancers are: 18pts WS6 BS4 S3 T3 I6 W1 A2 Ld9, with an extra hand weapon, +1S on the charge, MR1 and can have either a 4+ Ward, +1 attack, or -1 attack and KB, but cannot have the same Dance twice in a round?

So, for +6pts/model, you get +2WS -1S -1T +1Ld, no special weapons, MR, or dances, but gain Immune to Psychology and a 5+ Ward versus non-magical attacks?

I'm just not seeing how Dryads don't outperform them at every turn.

And yeah, I just noticed that about the Treeman. Ah, well. He's quite a solid monster, actually.

To be honest, I think they serve different purposes. Wardancers actually get +1 attack without using up a dance, so they have base 2, +1 from their weapons, so 4 if they choose to take that dance, but they can do Killing Blow without losing any attacks, 4+ ward, OR -1 A and ASF. They're good for taking out Heavy Cavalry and anything heavily armored that doesn't have ASF. Dryads are good sturdy guys. Also, you didn't mention this, but Dryads have fear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I redid the list a little bit and here's what came of it. I'd love your thoughts on the new one.

Lords
Spellweaver (Deployed with Winter Glade Guard) - lv 4, Dispel Scroll, Longbow - 275

Heroes
BSB Noble (Deployed with Summer Glade Guard) - Hail of the Doom Arrow, Asyendil's Bane, Battle Standard Bearer, Light Armor - 132

Core
Winter Glade Guard (10) - Musician - 126
Summer Glade Guard (10) - Musician - 126
Dryads (8) - 96

Special
Wardancers (5) - 90
Wardancers (5) - 90
Treekin (3) - 195

Rare
Great Eagle - 50
Treeman - 285

Looks good to me!

Ah. I'd forgotten that they have 2 attacks base, +AHW. And they lose an attack for the ASF dance, not the KB one. Okay. Well, let's take a quick look-see:

6 Wardancers=9 Dryads.

Dryads: 18 WS4 S4 attacks, T4, 9 wounds, 5+ Ward, ItP, Fear, larger base size.

Wardancers:
Dance 1: 18 WS6 S4(3) attacks, T3, KB
Dance 2: 18 WS6 S4(3) attacks, T3, 4+ Ward
Dance 3: 24 WS6 S4(3) attacks, T3
Dance 4: 12 WS6 S4(3) attacks, T3, ASF

So, Wardancers are more offensive with KB or more attacks, at a higher WS, and with ASF against WS4+ units (against WS3 and lower, 18 attacks are better than 12 ASF ones).
I'd say they're always more fragile; a 4+ Ward and T3 is inferior to T4, a 5+, and more wounds.

The one thing I'll say for sure, though, is that the smaller footprint means you can get more of those attacks where you need them. I don't think it's worth much, but it's something.

In terms of damage output it depends on what I'm fighting.

9 Dryads against Cold One Riders (my buddy likes these a lot) with WS4 S4, T4, A2 and a 2+ save will have:
18 Attacks; 9 hits; 4.5 wounds; 1.5 unsaved.

6 Wardancers on the charge with the KB option will have
18 Attacks; 12 hits, 6 wounds (1 instant kill) 1.33 unsaved.

with the +1 Attack
24 Attacks, 16 hit, 8 wound, 2.33 unsaved

Against Skinks (WS2, S2, T2, 5+ save) the dryads have
18 Attacks, 12 hits, 10 wounds, 8.33 unsaved.

The Wardancers have
24 attacks, 16 hits, 13.33 wound, 11.11 unsaved.

Thats the simple math, but I'm not good enough at it to know how fear, Itp play in. This is also not counting the attacks back, which is crucial.

Maybe I should take out a squad of wardancers for more Glade Guard...

Glade Guard are probably the best unit in the book, honestly. After all this time, they still deliver.

Your not taking into account the rules of diminishing returns, because its very unlikely for a unit of 6 wardancers to arrive unmolested by missile fire. Those skinks you charged would get say 15 stand and shoot shots at least from javelins, more from blow pipes. Hitting on 5's that's 5 hits, 2.5ish wounds with only a 6+ save. That's 1/3 of your combat ability gone. With dryads that's 1.5 ish wounds with a 5+ save. You also assume your wardancers will get the charge on the cold ones, which is unlikely, and your forgetting that they have ASF meaning that's 5 wounds before you even strike (10 attacks hitting on 4's, wounding on 2's with lances), with dryads they will only do 2 wounds (wounding on 3's then a 5+ save). I'm not saying Dryads are better in combat always, but they are always more survivable and lose less combat efficiency per wound, while Wardancers have a startling lack of ASF and are only strength 4 on the charge.

Do you know what you could do with those 180pts? You could invest that into 3 more treekin to make a unit of 6. That's the most combat efficient unit we wood elves can get when supported with live or beast magic. Also, while adding your points up it only added up to 1465 pts, is this intentional? If you drop the dispel scroll you can get the much better wand of wych elm, and still have points for some extra glade guard or dryads.

Alex

Think folk are getting confused about Wardancers.
Alas, they're only 1 attack basic, plus one for the Wardancer Weapons. They can also get an extra attack from one of the dances though.

Yeah, I think I was confused about Wardancers' stats. Sadly.

I'm dropping one unit of Wardancers and with the points that AlexisisAwesome found in my list (I typed 162 instead of 126 for the points cost on one of the Glade Guard) I'm gonna beef up the Winter Glade Guard to 15 and give my Spellweaver the Wand of Wych Elm and Resplendance of Luminescence. 16 Magical shots per turn. Against a Slann, that'll be nice. Against things that are flammable, or when buildings come into play, I can swap that out for a Banner of Eternal Flame on the squad.

I will be buying 3 more Treekin very soon. I keep hearing about their power at 6 deep, so I'll be biting the bullet and getting on that soon.

You need more Glade Guard. Dryads are your re-directors to get things out of your face while the rest of your elves move and shoot with impunity.

Have you considered putting the hero on an eagle? It will make him very dangerous to war machines, dish him up with a Great Weapon and hurl him into war machines and re-directors after he's blown his arrows.

Overall at lower points costs, WE can perform better then other armies of their sort. Glade Guard become more and more powerful at lower points games because they are better then most bow troops being able to move and shoot without penalty.

I would suggest dumping the treekin, you will find that they will not perform for you as well as you might think. Also, maybe drop the war dancers down to a single unit and find the points for a combat lord to put in there. Also, if you haven't built anything yet, Glade Riders can be a fun list at this kind of points if you're up for the challenge. I'd also suggest www.asrai.org for more help, as that forum is 100% dedicated to Wood Elves.

Wood Elves are not a shooting army, we are simply not good at it unless you are limited to 1,000pts. Why you ask? Cannons>Bows. Wood Elves use archery to kill of chaff and to pick of models, but i'd bet all your wood elf wins have been because of a well designed flank charge into a combat. Or a powerful spell. Also your magic lores don't work well with war dancers, you obviously want the treeman to be a big part of the army, otherwise you wouldn't have a BsB. That means you want to use life magic, while wardancers want beasts. But a treekin block of 6 works very well with life, becoming toughness 9 is unbeatable!

So my alternative to this list is one that looks like this. I'm interested to hear if you think this is a better idea... It's a ton more shooting with only marginally combat redirection, but much more powerful War machine/Lord Hunting, Eagle Shenanigans unit.

Lords
Spellweaver (Deployed with Winter Glade Guard) - lv 4, Wand of Wych Elm, Resplendence of Luminescence, Longbow - 330

Heroes
Eagle Noble - Great Eagle, Great Weapon, Light Armor, Enchanted Shield, Stone of the Crystal Mere, Luckstone - 171

Core
Winter Glade Guard (20) - Musician - 126
Summer Glade Guard (10) - Musician - 246
Spring Glade Guard (10) - Musician - 126

Dryads (10) - 120
Dryads (8) - 96

Rare
Treeman - 285

I'm gonna get on getting those treekin stat.

That should work at 1,500pts, but i'd keep that as your 1500 list because it wont scale to well due to the enemy having more warmachines at higher pts. I'd make a few changes. For example the extra dryads aren't helping anyone, keep them in units of 8. With those 24 pts you could give your big unit of glade guard a standard bearer and banner of eternal flame which is always useful. I would suggest dropping the Eagle noble in favour of a BsB with Bane and HoDA and normal eagle. This is due to a single eagle is good enough to handle most crews, and the BsB works extremely well with the treeman with his stubborn Ld 8 with re-roll means he aint budging. You would also have the option of swapping all your spell weavers gear for the Harp which grants 5+ invul for the whole of the big unit if you think you need it. So it would look like.

Lords
Spellweaver (Deployed with Winter Glade Guard) - lv 4, (Wand of Wych Elm + Cluster of Radiance, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Power Stone or Dispel scroll) Or Rhymer's Harp and Iron Curse Icon (Deploys with Summer Guard)Longbow - 335

Heroes
BsB Noble - Asyendil's Bane, HoDA, GW and LA (Deploys with Summer Guard) - 116

Core
Winter Glade Guard (10) - Musician - 126
Summer Glade Guard (20) - Musician, Standard Bearer (Banner of Eternal Flame) - 268
Spring Glade Guard (10) - Musician - 126

Dryads (8) - 96
Dryads (8) - 96

Rare
Treeman - 285
Eagle - 50

Total 1498pts

The idea being shoot chaff to heck, while sending treeman at biggest scariest block. With BsB in range the treeman will keep them there all game, grinding them down and maybe eventually break them.

@AlexisAWESOME: I wasn't forgetting about "diminishing returns"; it's just that, for every situation where Wardancers get shot at more, there's another where the Dryad's can't bring as much of their effectiveness to bear, because of the larger footprint.

But yes. I'm basically 100% sold that Wardancers are inferior to Dryads. Less attacks at a higher WS and ASF/4+ Ward/KB, or the same number of attacks. And lower T, and no Fear (thank you for the clarification, Aben Zin!)

I wouldn't say that Cannons > Bows, though. They're better against monsters and heavy cavalry, maybe, but they're less reliable and much more fragile. They're just very, very different.

@Matt1785: Treekin don't perform as well as you'd think? How so? What exactly are you pitting them up against that they're so lackluster?

Point for point they're too expensive when compared to other units of their type. At 65 pts a guy.. it's just crazy. 3 Treekin is too expensive, their points need lowering, but it's an old book, so it's to be expected that they don't perform superbly (Also, look at the models... uggly.)

It's also been stated that cannons are good, and while I don't feel that cannon > bows (Simply because of volume) cannons will wreak havoc on an army that only has two things to shoot them at, a Tree man and the tree kin. At 1500 pts you'll see cannons, whether they're Daemons, Ogres, Empire, etc.

Ok, how about War machines (Bolt throwers, stone throwers, gatling cannons) >Bows. What I was trying to get at is the fact we lack the likes of cannons and bolt throwers means that a full range army is ineffective, while having our Elvers as combat units is ineffective because 1) they are overcosted. and 2) We have a lack of ASF, making us inferior to other elves. That means the only effective combat units we have are tree spirits, because they have good toughness and strength so they don't need to strike first as much as elves do and they have better synergy with beasts and life then elves do.

Yes Treekin are overcosted, hate to break it to you, but the whole army is apart from eagles. Treekin are overcosted by maybe 10pts, but they are still very good. They out fight other MI due to above average strength and toughness with a passable save and a ward save most MI lack as well as having great synergy with Beasts (Wildform making them mini treemen) and Life (Healing T5 wounds is ALWAYS effective, and T8/9 is just mean). Add this to the fact Wood Elves have no effective combat blocks (Eternal guard are overcosted and no matter how you swing it, they are still S 3 T 3 with a 5+ save and no ASF) this makes a block of 6 Treekin the ONLY effective combat anvil AND hammer we have. There shouldn't be anything that can steam roll this unit without massive buffs like mind razor.

@Matt1785: I've run the math. 6 Treekin versus 13 Ogres results in those Ogres getting ground into dust.

The only things you don't want to put your Treekin up against seem to be units with high volumes of S5+ attacks, which usually amount to the Big Scary units in your opponent's army, like a horde of Big 'Uns or Executioners. And with Wood Elves, you should be able to avoid that combat.

Treekin are Ogres with +1WS +1S +1T, +2 armour, and a 5+ Ward. That's a pretty sick stat line.

@ALEXisAWESOME: Fair point. But have you ever run a lvl4, a BSB, and Glade Guard? It is, simply put, rather stupid how effective the list can be.With nothing but units of 10 to target, your opponent will feel like every boulder catapulted and every cannon fired was a waste of a shot.
But I do agree with you; armies in general need to pool their resources to accomplish a task. And Forest Spirits are a potent and remarkably soild aspect of the Wood Elf army. Dryads aren't glass cannons, which is saying something (especially looking at the new Dark Elf stuff).