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Since this has come up in a couple of other threads recently, I thought I'd made a new one for it.

Basically, do you think the new rules introduced for the Hobbit add to the game or make it better?

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the new rules are, by and large, needlessly complicated. The special strikes for every type of weapon I find add nothing more than another layer of complication, whereas the old 'hand weapon, one size fits all' approach was far simpler. The new heroic actions are fun, not game breaking but arguably not necessary either. I don't like the changes to ranged weapons, with moving at all giving -1 hit (halfing movement to shoot at all was enough really, and bows were hardly OP before). The new monster rules fall largely in the same category as weapon changes, not really needed.

I've also heard some complaints about new characters/units being undercosted/overpowered, but as I have little experience here, I'll leave that for others to bring up.

All in all, I think the new rules add a new and unneeded layer of complexity to a game that, in previous incarnations, was impressively simple.

So, Dakka-Thoughts?

The new changes do add a level of complexity to the game, that is very true but they are easy to leave out when learning how to play. The game is a very simple one in my mind but it is very difficult to master as it has so many littl nuances to it. The new rules jsut add to that and imo I like it. The core of the game didnt change at all but it added to it. The new rules didnt take anything away from aonyones army. In fact I think it made some even a little better.

As far as it goes with ballancing, GW did the typical GW thing and made the new hotness be the best thing out there hoping they would get players to start new armies but they are in no way unbeatable. I have played against most of the new stuff and it was all beatable. For example the scribe. Yes he brings an obnoxious amount of goblins on the table but they do also die in droves and the scribe himself is incredably weak.

All in all, if you dont like them just dont use them. This game has a great ability to play the game using varying levels of rules to decrease or increase the complexity of the game. For most gamers the new rules are not that complicated. The hard part of them is remembering they exist and its those people who forget to use them are the ones I have noticed who complain about them because their opponets do not forget them.

I'm with you Paradigm, I think the changes actually make the game worse. It just lost a bit of the streamlining that I thought was one of its stand out features. Now, I still think it is a very good game, still my favourite miniatures system, but a bit tarnished.

Since I play either solo, or with a limited group, its not a big deal, and as Namiel said, I don't have to use any rules I don't like. However, that's not true of people who like to play in tournaments, or play pick up games in stores. In these instances, most people will expect to play the game 'as written' even if they both think the earlier version of the rules was better.

Some things were removed with the new rules too.

Like Volley fire, and spearmen not able to support bases larger than themselves.

Whether this was on purpose or accidental still has me wondering

Some of the things are a improvement.for example:I put a cave troll down on the table.Before:Gets bogged down by a single goblin each turn.
Now:Try that:get the goblin thrown into your army.Sadly this ruins cavalry since getting hit by a hurled model dismounts you.