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So, I'm putting together a WS biker army, and I know I'm going to have to face Heldrake spam. I am planning on getting a Stormraven with (almost barebones) Vanguard Vets, so I will definitely have some decent air power.

Should I get some Stormtalons to support the Stormraven and help take out Heldrakes? My concern is that the Heldrakes would still gobble up bikers pretty much at will, before I had a chance to take them down.

Or, should I get some HS choices with Skyfire instead?

Another major concern is that there are no good Interceptor options, so Heldrakes are practically guaranteed to wipe out bikes before I get a chance to respond. Is there any way to counter this? Put bikes in reserve, take advantage of Outflank to hope I get an opportunity to special weapon something to death before I get roasted?

Thanks!

My 1500 bike list has 2 stormtalons for just that reason.
At higher points I might bump up to a stormraven to help for just the reasons you mentioned.

Thanks! I still don't see exactly how to avoid getting killed by entering Heldrakes. Two Heldrakes could fairly easily destroy all four bike squads in my army in one turn. Is the answer just to use Reserves and Outflank? Again, playing WS here, and happy to use the Khan.

Well, they probably won't kill all 4 squads in one turn -- depending on how many you have in the squad. The trick is to conga-line them to minimize the effect templates can have. With a 3" long base and 2" coherency, its pretty easy to ensure only 3 can be hit by a flame template.

Outflaking them is a very good idea if you go second. It stops the vector strike -- which is half of the damage output that the helldrake can deal out. If your going first, outflanking is really not all that keen.

Another good way to avoid problems is to be engaged in assault. Now that can be tricky. If your engaged with Abbadon, well....that's kind of like jumping from the frying pan into the molten core of the sun. Yea. You don't want to be anywhere near Abbadon. But -- you can afford to be stuck in with most other troops for a turn while the helldrakes fly overhead. This is especially true as you can 'hit and run' out of a bad spot.

You should check out some white scars vs chaos batreps. You will see people stringing long lines of front to back bikes when a hellturkey is about to show or charging into combat so the squads cannot be hit. Remember that white scars have hit and run so you can charge stuff you cannot actually beat and then bounce out to shoot in your turn.

I personally prefer stormravens. About as survivable as 2 stormtalons and you have a 45% chance to nuke a turkey every turn. As opposed to ~25% chance for 2 stormtalons to kill a hellturkey in a single turn. The reason people like stormtalons is the flexibility where they are good anti infantry, light AV and decent hellturkey. Stormravens are excellent AA and tank but poor anti infantry in the MM/LC setup. The other benefit being you can put your foot ruin climbers to zoom in and try for the objectives those bikes cannot reach. Take this in the IH allies slot for the extra hilarity of a IWND stormraven.

If you play forgeworld the hyperious platforms are awesome as they get interceptor and are tough as nails. You can also ally in Tau broadsides or riptides for the super interceptor they provide (Heresy!). Finally if you don't mind a weird dissonance you can take a firestorm redoubt which has a 25% chance to kill a hellturkey on interceptor.

Edit: I'm dumb. I get what you did there. Going back into the shadows now....Biscuits for Jeff.... Hair Doo's for Simon.......

There's always allying in IG and taking an officer of the fleet. 4+ reserve rolls can put a clink in anyone's flier plans.

Techmarines can go on bikes, and you can take 1 for free (slotwise) for each HQ in your army. These can soak a few heldrake wounds usually.

And if your looking for Interceptor+Skyfire, the cheap way is getting a ADL with a Quad gun (100pts) or Icarus Lascannon (85pts).

One of the best defenses is to simply get into assault before the Helldrake comes in. With Hit and Run, this can be an entirely valid tactic.

Another option is to try and get the Divination that gives a 4+ inv save.

Stormravens can be quite devestating to Helldrakes. Granted, they still have a 5+ inv save. If you know you will face a lot of Helldrake spam, then I'd recommend taking 2 Stormravens depending on points level. It is a bit tailoring, but your putting out MEQ and the Helldrake can kill them in droves.

Best of luck.

 Sarigar wrote:
One of the best defenses is to simply get into assault before the Helldrake comes in. With Hit and Run, this can be an entirely valid tactic.

As I mentioned, just be careful who you try that trick with. CSM has some of the most deadly ICs and MCs in the game.
Abbadon and Typhus can, for example, kill entire bike squads in 1 round of combat.
You don't want to have your rule of 'hit and run' change to 'gibbed parts flying'

Consider some DA ravenwing allies. Of course you have to take scouts or marines as troops, which sucks. (What I wouldn't give to have landspeeder storms in Codex DA for scouts). But it does allow you to take up to 2 black knight squads (1 command squad, 1 black knights), and most importantly with regards to your question, it allows you to take a librarian and a techmarine on bikes with power Field Generators.

The 4++ save for bikes squads is the best counter for heldrakes on the turn they come in. The black knights would be a good addition to almost any army, and their twin linked plasmas offer an ok chance at hurting flyers.

My white scars list runs two chapter masters on bikes with artificer armor for just this reason. I run the bikes in an arrowhead formation with the CM on point. I hang out around the 36" mark from the board edge to avoid vector strike. The CM absorbs baleflamers. I then employ 2x Storm talons with Typhoon Missiles to hunt the drakes.

Well, Biker squads have a larger footprint than normal infantry units. By proper positioning, this can help to minimize the hits taken by a bale flamer.