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Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I can't help think how much it looks like Malifaux the Adventure Game.

Deadlands did it first. Or at least before Malifaux.

Looks interesting. I have Last Night on Earth and its a fun quasi tactical game for when the group doesnt feel like something more in depth (Arkham Horror or whatever).

The figures look a little more detailed than LNOE guys. Would be nice to see them painted just to tell.

This concept has been around for a looooooooong time. Robert E Howard was writing supernatural wild west stories at the same time he was writing Conan and Lovecraft Mythos stories.

In fact, this game appears to be directly inspired by Howard's writing...now I feel like a huge nerd.

Quote for Truth

Howard was given the affectionate nickname "Two-Gun Bob" by virtue of his long explications to Lovecraft about the history of his beloved Southwest, and during the ensuing years he contributed several notable elements to Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos of horror stories (beginning with "The Black Stone", his Mythos stories also included "The Cairn on the Headland", "The Children of the Night" and "The Fire of Asshurbanipal"). He also corresponded with other "Weird Tale" writers such as Clark Ashton Smith, August Derleth, and E. Hoffmann Price.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:

jmw23 wrote:
I don't have a dog in the fight, but there's definitely a lot of negative talk over on Boardgamegeek as well. People seem upset at the way the mine cart tiers were structured. As someone who isn't pledging, I can see their point...the feeling that you missed out on the sweet spot and now are getting the exact same thing as everyone else for $150+ more is lousy, and might prevent some pledges.

It is currently preventing me from pledging!

This is a wait-until-it-hits-retail situation for me. I'll endeavor to get a demo game in once the box is on the shelf, and go from there. Maybe if the minis were 28mm...maybe, but that's only because I run my own home brew wild west fantasy/horror miniatures game, and new wild west miniatures are always nice. But 35mm is too big.

And as for "retail" customers "not taking a risk," come on. This project does NOT have to be a Kickstarter. This thing could simply be put on the shelf as a retail product, and Flying Frog would be taking a risk. There's probably not much in terms of savings from this KS project, there's not much in terms of exclusive content. All backers are getting is a jump on retail release. In the process, FFP is likely crapping on its post KS retail sales, as all of the pledges on the KS are sucking sales away from retailers, who may very well be far less inclined to put the game on the shelf. Kickstarter is being overutilized in this industry. There's no real need for customers to be backing projects like this. The only "risk" involved is in getting a product you are not happy with because you paid for it before you had a chance to see it.

It makes sense to do that if the product would not otherwise exist, but that is not the case here. FFP can put out a product without needing to raise funds. In fact, FFP have been working on this game for years. FFP has been investing in the product development for a long time now, and do you really think that they wouldn't attempt to recoup that investment if they did not get funding? That's a laugh.

When I approach Kickstarter, I look for projects that would have great difficulty getting off of the ground any other way. I look for projects that need the funding in order to raise capital that otherwise would be difficult to raise. FFP already raised the capital. FFP has already invested its own money. It does not need mine. If they put out a good product, maybe I will buy it.

 Gomez wrote:

Just FYI, but FFP have already said they could have gone the non-KS route, a few elements at a time, but that the releases of all the parts of the game would have to be stretched over 5-10 years. Via KS they are able to get the whole game (most of it, anyway) out to the public in one go. Not sure how "appropriate" a use of KS you think that is, but it's definitely not just a question of yes/no regarding this game.

Yea, they said that. I might be inclined to take that with more than a pinch of salt. But why would a release schedule like that be bad anyway? You release a product, if it sells well, you release an expansion. If that sells well, you release another expansion, etc. If you fund all of the expansions via Kickstarter, whose to say those are going to sell well as a retail release. I suppose that it doesn't really matter at that point because you've paid the development costs. But haven't the development costs already largely been paid? FFP has been working on this stuff, right? For years, right? They have stuff ready to show in stretch goals, right?

If it is finished and is awesome, okay, fine, but why do you need Kickstarter? If it isn't finished, you are supporting a huge range of expansions that could very well suck, for a game that you have never played, all so that FFP can allegedly shorten its release schedule? What happens if the expansions suck? Now you are left holding the bag, and what did you get out of it?

If the game would not exist because FFP does not have the ability to raise capital in a traditional manner, then what you get is the chance to see this idea, this project, become a reality. That is what you would be paying for, and that is really what Kickstarter is designed to support. In that case, if the product sucks, okay fine. You took a risk because you wanted to see the project come to life and you were hoping it would be great. If it is going to exist anyway...come on, really? Let FFP go and get a loan, put up their own money, take their own risks, and compete in a market. FFP doesn't need my money, and doesn't need yours.

If you think paying out to shove 5 years of releases into 2 years waiting for your pledge rewards, that's fine. That's just not a choice I would make.

ced1106 wrote:

You might not be happy with this, but guess who was.

Kickstarter is not supposed to be a pre-order system. Kickstarter is not supposed to approve projects that do not require the funding. But hey, if people want to do it, that's on them. I just think it is a terrible way to spend one's money, and bad for the hobby in the sense that Kickstarters like these draw attention away from 'legitimate' kickstarters for gaming projects that will never exist without the funding.

I also think the conditioning of expectations is the really big problem with these kickstarter projects. Kickstarter is on track to change the way the market behaves, which can hurt small existing miniatures companies that can't run a mega Kickstarter project and have trouble sustaining themselves when so many people are plowing funds into kickstarter projects designed to encourage impulsive purchasing. These kickstarters really jerk your chain. They are designed to, and this is one reason why we are seeing "minecartgate." The projects are designed to build temporary enthusiasm and encourage impulsivity. I think people pretty much understand this one some level, and so when a project seems to not give you what you believe you "deserve," it provokes a sharply negative reaction.

willb2064 wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
How do you think the Reaper Deadlands line and cowboys would scale up to the game?

They had a pretty cool cowboy werewolf with shotgun in there that I sure wouldn't mind throwing down.

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/SavageWorlds

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/Chronoscope/sku-down/page12

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/Dark%20Heaven%20Legends/sku-down/03641

Put on a reaper cowboy hat and there you go- Count Von Cleetus.

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/Dark%20Heaven%20Legends/sku-down/03387

Yeah, I thinks I'm pretty stoked for the game.

35mm will look quite out of scale with Reaper minis - you would be able to get away with it with any monsters, but for human-sized models Wild West Exodus is the same scale (should be launching in a few weeks)

Yea, 35mm killed any desire I had to back this. I would have nothing to do with the minis other than the game, which looks underwhelming for the price tag.