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Just applied some weathering powder to a Rhino that will see some heavy tabletop use, so I hit it with some matte sealer. But sealers really alter the look of the original weathering treatment. I was thinking of doing another "coat" of weathering powder to bring it back to where I wanted it to be with another coat of sealant.

Is there a trick to using weathering powders and sealers that I'm unaware of?

Varnish does tend to dull down the effect of powders, a bit. Some people tactically overdo their initial weathering to compensate, but it can be hard to judge how much to adjust your applications without a decent bit of experience.

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any easy way around it. Pigments look most natural when simply allowed to rest on a model (for dry, dusty applications, at least), but need to be sealed to survive frequent handling. Using pigments in lighter shades and with heavier applications is the most common "fix" I've seen cited.

I have also heard claims that using hairspray instead of matte varnish changes the appearance less, but the stuff is meant to wash away easily - I wouldn't trust it protect against anything more than a stiff breeze.

On the bright side, the high wear areas on a model where the pigment would be more likely to wear off, will be exactly the same areas of the model which would naturally have less weathering anyway, so the weathering could conceivably get more realistic over time!

It's not a new problem.

For gaming pieces you really DO have to overdo it, because a good sealer will remove much of the effect otherwise.

Hairspray will hold it on a display model, but those don't get touched much. Gaming models with much more handling will wear off the hairspray in a few days of handling (sweat, skin oils and just humidity will all interact to do it). Hair spray washes out in water, after all.

Yep, same problem. Especially with rust pigment. A nice bright rusty look, then seal or varnish it and it dulls down. I was gutted the first time but as mentioned you soon get used to it and add another layer or two.

When working on items like this, I generally go for the overcompensating route before applying a matt varnish spray. I does tend to reduce the effect, but as long as you put a little extra powder on, it roughly arrives where you want it to be.

I have found similar results with my limited use of weathering pigments.

My solution has been to do a bit of airbrush shading, followed by some target use of the pigments, then light airbrushed matte varnish (testors acryl clear flat, thinning about 10%).

This seems to work the best of me.

One important caveat - I am sure someone of better skill could get better results with the powders, but so far this works the best at my slowly growing skill level.

best of luck!

The airbrushing first is a good idea, as it'll slowly gradient in the colour so it isn't too harsh.

The powders are tricky - the main thing you have to do is make sure you don't bloody touch the thing before you have a chance of varnish it... oh the headaches I've had in the past on large weathering jobs.

 RavensNestPainting wrote:
The airbrushing first is a good idea, as it'll slowly gradient in the colour so it isn't too harsh.

The powders are tricky - the main thing you have to do is make sure you don't bloody touch the thing before you have a chance of varnish it... oh the headaches I've had in the past on large weathering jobs.

Yeah, what I do is kind of like backwards osl....

I usually use a transparent paint (various names: ghost tint, hue, transparent, etc.) and shoot it in very faint layers from the bottom of the model, collecting more in areas closer to my dirt/contamination source.

Then I go and put small amounts of pigments in certain crevices, or in duct openings or treads etc....places where I want more of a "build up" than just a "dirty" or "dusty" look.

Again, this is to compensate with my skill/experience with the powders - but so far it works for me.

I appreciate the tips! Going to need to purchase an airbrush soon, so that's good info, too. I can see where an airbrush's ability to control airflow would help quite a bit, rather than the full blast from an aerosol can sealer.

I think this is more a problem with people who "brought" weathering powders to the gaming community not reading all the way to the end of the fine scale articles that they were copying.

Yes, you will need to seal the powders in order to keep them in place during use - however, you don't want to use varnish to do so. Varnish will get soaked up by the powder and cause it to look wet for forever and a day. This wet look makes them darker of course.

The solution is pretty simple and has been known to the art community for decades (and the fine scale community for slightly less time).

http://www.dickblick.com/categories/fixatives/

The sprays are designed not to soak into the powder, but encapsulate it. Two or three coats locks it in place and won't change the color. They come in the standard variety of sheens (flat, satin and gloss). Once they have been sealed down, you can than use which ever variety of varnish you prefer to paint over them without fear of the colors darkening.

For powders that I am concerned about the final color, I normally use Lascaux. When it first goes on, it gets a bit darker, but once dry - the color returns to the color of the raw powder. The finish is a satin as opposed to matte or gloss - but that is sort of where I keep most my paints till I do the final varnish coats to set their sheen. The price might make you think that it is a GW product - but you get a lot of mileage out of each can. You don't varnish the whole thing with it, just the areas which have powders applied.

Sometimes the wet look is desirable though. Red powders look like caked on clay mud, graphite powders look rather greasy... Those can be beneficial versus the dry look. You will learn those things with practice and experimentation though.

Another thing that you can do is to move away from regular powders. For a lot of things, I use PanPastels

http://www.dickblick.com/products/panpastel-artists-painting-pastels-sets/

The way they are manufactured they don't soak up as much varnish - and you can use a spatula to smear it up into tire treads and wheel wells where the dirt actually collects. The metallic work well for giving that slightly worn look to leading edges of things like dozer blades and tank treads.

They have a good selection of colors for dirt, rust, grease and all other manner of dust and debris.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
http://www.dickblick.com/categories/fixatives/

The sprays are designed not to soak into the powder, but encapsulate it. Two or three coats locks it in place and won't change the color. They come in the standard variety of sheens (flat, satin and gloss). Once they have been sealed down, you can than use which ever variety of varnish you prefer to paint over them without fear of the colors darkening.

Awesome! That looks to be the solution, Sean. Really appreciate the info, bud

I forgot to mention to look at pigments with pressure sensitive adhesives added to them. Most (all as far as I know) of the "hobby" pigments are just pigments (either ground chalk or pigments like Mixol). However, some of those made for the fine scale market have a pressure sensitive adhesive mixed in with them.

The adhesive is activated with your brush that you will use to apply them. They stick in place well enough for most things - though fingers can still smudge them. I think Bragdon was one of the brands I have used before that are set up that way - but the range of colors is much more limited than some of the other options. Not a bad thing if you are limiting yourself to realistic colors...but if you are after something a bit more exotic, it can be a bit problematic.

I used to use Mig pigment sealer to seal the powders, but i found this darkened the powders quite a bit so I just use the matt varnish now.