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I'm thinking about some Daemon allies for my CSM and am looking through the codex. Am I reading it correctly that in general Daemons don't actually get an inv save as standard like with the Daemon USR that applies to some things in the CSM codex?

If so, is this not a massive liability? Do they just have to rely on buffs e.g. Divination, Grimoire etc. For saves?

Read the "Daemon of ____" rules

All daemons come with a 5+ inv save, no matter what codex. It's part of the daemon rule in the 40k rulebook.
But it's still not a great save and is still a definite liability in my books, especially since i have a tzeentch fetish, who's followers are notorious for being very squishy. However, the daemon rule also means that they have fear.

I think it can be a bit confusing as it just says "daemon of khorne" or "Daemon of tzeentch, but if you look at that rule it says that i gives the creature the Daemon rule

Thanks guys. Not sure how I missed that; I read it several times as well. 5++ is better than nothing but still sounds a bit squishy as I'm used to oblits and plague marines etc. How does it typically play out though? Do troops take a lot of casualties? Need to be careful what you're doing with the greater daemons?

I'm particularly interested in how their saves would be relevant to Daemon allies e.g. a LoC or other HQ with some troops and maybe a Soulgrinder

With Daemons, you are usually going to fail a LOT of saves.

So you get cheap troops with lots of bodies and big nasties with lots of wounds.

You can improve the saves somewhat with various psychic powers/rewards but you'll have to put up with losing a lot of wounds each turn.

But with how fast they are you usually only have to weather 1 or maybe 2 turns of shooting before you are in combat.

Yes the troops seemed quite cheap compared to CSM. If a lot of deaths are usual is it then best to increase unit size above the standard 10? So perhaps run units of 15 or even 20?

I run big squads of stuff that can kill things (Daemonettes/Horrors) and usually small squads for objective campers (Plaguebearers).

Although having 20 plaguebearers with a herald attached to it can be quite hard to shift and surprisingly deadly to opponents. But sadly it's too slow to do anything but deepstrike or camp.

Plaguebearers don't usually need many numbers because they can just hide in terrain near an objective and go to ground whenever they get shot for a 2+/3+ cover save.

My bloodletters keep disappointing me whether I take squads of 10 or 20.

Yeah, I find that the best tactic is to use plague bearers foot slogging in front of some bloodletters makes a great distraction for the opponent, who will at first think that they have it easy due to the seemingly slow progress they make. Hide a herald of tzeentch or similar sorcerer to buff them as they go.

Then you deepstrike a unit of pink horrors to start shooting them up from behind, giving them an instrument so that you can get some flamers coming in from behind. This provides a good distraction for some screamers, drones, seekers, furies, ect coming in on the flank.

I use them as an ambush army, coming out of nowhere and using magic power their way to the enemy. ALWAYS make sure that you have the right roles assigned (Khorne front on attacks, Nurgle swarms, tzeentch shoots and casts spells and slaneesh for flanking and hacking at their sides)

Hope this helps : D

The strength of daemons is being able to shove out a massive tide of cheap things that move 12"+ and drown people in threats while backing them with a ton of divination-slinging heralds hiding in pink horror blobs. No 'distraction' units needed, almost everything is a horrifyingly fast threat in its own right.

Flesh Hounds, Screamers, Pink Horrors, and a cavalcade of Daemon Princes, led by a Lord of Change and Heralds of Tzeentch. Herald on a Juggernaut, Seekers, and Daemonettes to taste.

If you are cool with daemon allies, Never take a defiler again, just take a soul grinder. Yes, less guns, but WAY cheaper, and generally seen as the best walker in the game due to its various upgrades.

Something a lot of people don't think about when looking at daemons and the ++5, is how we don't give a damn about anything. Vindicator? Don't care. Lascannon? Don't care. You get used to the ++5, and you start to like it because you ALWAYS get it, which most armies are not familiar with. I have still played people who will stop me from rolling my saves with a line like, "That was AP2, you don't get a save"

When the vindicator targets a daemon prince, flesh hounds, plague drones or any other multi wound model, that is where the ++5 sucks massive. Luckily there is not all that much S10 in the game!

GreyHamster is right on the money, Daemons are a speed army. All of our elite and fast attack options move 12" base. Seekers of slaanesh can then run D6+6, and flesh hounds have a 12" scout move.

In my more competitive daemon lists, I bring 3 units of 10PBs for troops, and usually try to squeeze in the portal glyph on a nurgle herald for some back field awesome. It has saved me a few times. Enemy is coming up on my objectives, so I spawn daemonettes, who then on my next turn, assault and add some oomph to the PB unit.

Look into beefing up a Herald of Khorne to run with Flesh hounds. 10-20 flesh hounds and a khorne herald makes for a really nice murder unit. Just remember, no assault grenades.

the daemon of tzeentch/khorne/nurgle/slaanesh gives the unit the daemon special rule which confers a 5++ so they always get a save which makes daemons awesome especialy my daemons of tzeentch with re-rolls to all failed save rolls of a one