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I'd really like to get back legion benefits for the chaos space marines like 4th ed where you could for example get 4 heavy slots but only 1 fast attack as well as unlocking vindicators (chaos didnt have them at the time), and only allowing chaos undivided options for playing an iron warriors theme.... But noooooo loyalists get multiple themed armies in one book like salamanders and white scars but chaos of course can't have any fun or flavorful options. Really GW?

GW hates Xenos eh? Man, those Tau and Eldar players sure are suffering...

Anyways, what's your actual proposal? Give us something concrete to work with.

I mean bring back the old rules for each legion which allowed new unit options and special rules, and to answer your sarcastic scoffing with more sarcasm, tyranids seem to be having soooooo much fun this edition /end sarcasm

So what are you mad about? That chaos is different then normal marines? Has has a lot more options then before. As for xenos being hated by gw well I don't know where you got that from

Lord of Lustria wrote:
I mean bring back the old rules for each legion which allowed new unit options and special rules, and to answer your sarcastic scoffing with more sarcasm, tyranids seem to be having soooooo much fun this edition /end sarcasm

And to respond to your sarcasm: Gasp! A codex that has not been updated for the new edition is slightly sub-par. Oh waily, waily, waily! [/sarcasm]

I fail at quoting on my phone


Yes they do toughness 9 monsters with feel no pain are pretty nasty. So tyranids aren't as bad as you think. Infact they still do very well against these unstopable marines.

Lord of Lustria wrote:
I mean bring back the old rules for each legion which allowed new unit options and special rules, and to answer your sarcastic scoffing with more sarcasm, tyranids seem to be having soooooo much fun this edition /end sarcasm

Well, nids are actually much stronger than they were last edition.

Lord of Lustria wrote:
I mean bring back the old rules for each legion which allowed new unit options and special rules, and to answer your sarcastic scoffing with more sarcasm, tyranids seem to be having soooooo much fun this edition /end sarcasm

Are you going to propose anything concrete? Give us something to work with, an actual proposal with substance. Many of us may not know the old legion rules.

Also, Tyranids are an edition old. Please, use some common sense, and maybe dial back your title so it actually looks like you're looking for help with a rule and not whinging about the state of the Chaos codex.

Admitadly i am extremely butthurt about what robin cruddace did to nids (i.e. pyrovores, the worst unit in any mini wargame even existing), and they did 2 page long rules for every chaos legion for a total of something like 22 pages of rules which is why I haven't posted it. And I never claimed vanilla marines are op, I simply stated their codex is far less rigid and allows much more creativity when it comes to theme and play style.

Lord of Lustria wrote:
Admitadly i am extremely butthurt about what robin cruddace did to nids (i.e. pyrovores, the worst unit in any mini wargame even existing), and they did 2 page long rules for every chaos legion for a total of something like 22 pages of rules which is why I haven't posted it. And I never claimed vanilla marines are op, I simply stated their codex is far less rigid and allows much more creativity when it comes to theme and play style.

And no ones debating that, but its very misleading to have that title (not to mention having no relevance to a thread about CSM) when Eldar and Tau are leagues ahead of everything.

Right, so they did a whole bunch of rules, that much I'm aware of. But I have no clue what any of the rules actually were. Do you want all of them? Some of them? Straight copied over? Updated, modified? New ones? Combine some? Make it sleeker?

This is where you sit down and clarify what is you want done, and throw out some specific ideas or rules you'd like to see. Start with one legion, or a single rule change for each one...or something.

I posted the synopsis of iron warrior rule list and I will change the thread title, I just want some way to make themed legion lists more competitive than grabbing more variety and unfluffy combinations to be competitive

Okay, so you have the idea. Now you have to lay out what the rules would be, or the layout, or restrictions. Basically, write out how it would (roughly) look in a codex.

A player may select a legion tactic when building their army. If Iron Warriors is chosen, the player is restricted to a single FA slot maximum, but in turn gains an additional heavy support slot.

Something like that. This gives us, the forum goers something to actually chew on; the meat of the proposal. Otherwise its just a vague idea that doesn't really explain a whole lot.

*Edit* Frankly, you could do away with the whole GW slag thing. Many of us dislike GW, myself included, but honestly, it just detracts from everything you're saying.

As you can see I am new to forums so thanks, I honestly appreciate the sentiments. Will do, and when. I have more time tommorow morning I will post a legit rules section of a few paragraphs to 4 or 5 legions

Lord of Lustria wrote:
As you can see I am new to forums so thanks, I honestly appreciate the sentiments. Will do, and when. I have more time tommorow morning I will post a legit rules section of a few paragraphs to 4 or 5 legions

I figured you were new, so its best someone tells you early and has the patience to do so before you post something that, honestly, looked kinda immature and would have been devolved into something less than ideal.

Most of us GW 'haters' save it for the threads that involve at least some semblance of intelligent discourse on how they continue to make poor decisions or products.

Anyways, I hope you kinda figured out how this board works anyways, and there are quite a bit of us who are willing to help, but only if the original poster does the same amount of work in presenting the idea in a neat, legible format with some clear ideas we can all work with.

*Edit* Also, there's a thread title we can all get behind! Now we can get going. Also, I recommend if you want to do follow through with this you do some research, particularly go find user JustDave's Chaos fan dex he made for 5th. Truly one of the best fan dexes I've ever seen. Should be an easy search.

*Further Editing* You know what, I'll be nice.

Here's JustDave's Chaos fan dex. Take a look through at his ideas and see what you like and go from there.

Yea sorry, I just found my old 4th ed codex and was so filled with rage looking at how awesome it was for the 20$ it cost. (What are they now? 50$? And only 4 short years later?

Lord of Lustria wrote:
Yea sorry, I just found my old 4th ed codex and was so filled with rage looking at how awesome it was for the 20$ it cost. (What are they now? 50$? And only 4 short years later?

Oh I know, don't worry. Slowly moving out of the 40k aspect of wargaming myself.

Anyways, I edited my post above, take a look at the link I posted.

I have been moving to hordes/warmachine since its pretty fun with good models for a fraction of the price of 40k and it is pretty balanced

did the old 3.5 Chaos Codex really have more customization? I seem to recall that you could upgrade your units with marks, got about 1 or 2 unique weapons, got a free Champion if your squads had a certain number of guys. one faction could get cultists and another could get basilisks

Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines and Thousand Sons didn't exist as a separate unit, they were Chaos Marines with upgrades. I feel the new Codex has much more appropriate Troops in that regard. you can get Warpsmiths for your Iron Warriors, maybe MoT like the Iron Hands, you have access to plenty of cultists and you can have a dragon. You can even have a Nurgle Lord with 5 wounds

really now, Chaos has less vehicles than the Space Marines but has more Infantry options that perfectly represent what they are meant to be. All that's missing are Basilisks sitting in an extra Heavy Support Slot, but you could just get some allies for that if you really wanted it.

 Lotet wrote:
did the old 3.5 Chaos Codex really have more customization? I seem to recall that you could upgrade your units with marks, got about 1 or 2 unique weapons, got a free Champion if your squads had a certain number of guys. one faction could get cultists and another could get basilisks

Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines and Thousand Sons didn't exist as a separate unit, they were Chaos Marines with upgrades. I feel the new Codex has much more appropriate Troops in that regard. you can get Warpsmiths for your Iron Warriors, maybe MoT like the Iron Hands, you have access to plenty of cultists and you can have a dragon. You can even have a Nurgle Lord with 5 wounds

really now, Chaos has less vehicles than the Space Marines but has more Infantry options that perfectly represent what they are meant to be. All that's missing are Basilisks sitting in an extra Heavy Support Slot, but you could just get some allies for that if you really wanted it.

Well you had mutation options for the HQ's/possessed, more items, Chaos lord could become a Chaos Lord Sorcerer (because being JUST LIKE A CAPTAIN IS SO COOL RIGHT GUYS?). Chosen retinue, chosen terminator retinue (terminators weren't seperate), an exalted champion that wasn't a sorcerer. Daemon princes were Chaos Lords with the right amount of God Given mutation (And could be any size due to the fact that not all DP's are gigantic huge monsters)

Cult terminators, all sorts of individual chaos items for each god, minor powers list for each god, marks for vehicles.

Not to mention chaos marines with upgrades meant that it was consistent for their wargear and what could be granted.

Each CSM was shown to be a veteran because each could take a veteran skill (outdated), but still they were shown to be more elite then the basic of Space Marines due to the warbands constant fighting.