Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So what is the best weapon for the heavy weapon platform? I know guardians are not the best Troop choice, but i like them and I want to run two units of them with dual heavy weapons. My Eldar list is very fluid and changes quite a bit.

I personally like Starcannon. I like how you can put wounds on some MEQs that is about to kick your ass. It also becomes quite handy if you're lucky enough to find a Skyfire on an objective and there's a Deamon Prince flying above.

Brightlance, sure you get half the shots of a starcannon, but it I.D. t4 has lance, and is better at taking out tanks.

Defenders should not be shooting at tanks. Besides, one BL is pretty pathetic vs tanks. Star cannon is an effective weapon vs anything that the catapults would be shooting at. Good vs MCs, great vs terminators, and great vs MEQ. It even IDs T3, though thats more of a bonus than a selling point.

Starcannon+10 in a WS is effective in my playtesting, though disembarking into terrain is almost always necessary because the unit gets wiped easily. Warlocks do not work, as LD8 fails way too often to rely on for a unit's survival.

I do like the Bright Lance, but I keep my guardians behing an ADL. They stay pretty immobile so I try to snipe at tanks, but thats just a personal preference. I think starcannon/brightlance are the most common. Scatter doesn't really benefit the squad and why pay for a 24 inch weapon?

I don't play Eldar, but personally I'd go for the Shuriken Cannon. It's cheaper and can put out more shots meaning more Ap2 pseudo-Rending that Eldar love so much. Starcannons and Bright Lances are fine, but Eldar don't seem to have much trouble taking out tanks anyway, and the abundance of cover means that your Ap2 shots are going to waste if they're hiding in cover.

Everything apart from the Missile Launcher are viable options. Usually I find Eldar lists are light on long range heavy AT (Serpents deal with light armour but not so much AV13-14) so take Bright Lances if I have the points to work with. This makes the squad very flexible, against Land Raider spam lists you can throw them out of the Serpent and snipe away. Starcannons and Shuriken Cannons give you more torrent and more reliable AP2 punch. Scatters are probably the weakest choice after the overpriced Missile Launcher, because you don't twin link anything, other units use it better and its no better than the Cannon for its points if you just want burst damage.

Oddly enough I've found that the most important reason to take the platforms is to keep the Guardians alive. Since the platform is now an actual model with a 3+ save you can use it to tank wounds for the 5+ save Guardians. This is particularly important for mech units, since the Serpent usually drops shields asap (so they can take pens), and exploding vehicles do terrible things to T3 5+ save guys.

None of the weapons are really bad or wrong except the missile launcher. Each weapon has a niche, and some do better on foot, some better if meched up.

If I am running guardians on foot, I either go scatter laser or bright lance. The scatter laser is a nice all rounder with high dakka and range. Lance is just for long ranged AT, but I normally don't need it. Scatter is sufficient for light armor.

If I am running the guardians in a serpent, the starcannon and shuricannon are both good. Both add some heavy S6 punch with low AP/pseudorending. The short range of the cannon is mitigated by mobility, and the cheap cost is nice. Starcannons are decent if you have points spare to get those surefire AP2 shots.

I'm curious as to what's so bad about the Missile Launcher, it doesn't seem that bad, being able to lay down S4 Ap4 Blasts or S8 Ap3 shots. Better than Imperial Missile Launchers anyway.

The missile launcher is a great weapon, but it is too expensive compared to the other options. The S4 AP4 blast with pinning and the pinning krak missile are nice, but not worth the extra 50% cost of a bright lance, scatter laser or starcannon. If you want heavy AT, you get the lance, for anti MEQ/TEQ the starcannon and shuricannon win out. Scatter laser does more damage to hordes and light armor. You also get extra range from the missile launcher, but the other weapons are usually fine. If the missile launcher was the same price as the other guns, you would see them everywhere. However, the extra price is not worth it for a jack of all trades weapon, when cheaper and more specialized weapons exist.

Same reason you never see them on serpents, war walkers or wraithlords. That and laser lock...

Since they themselves are already anti-MEQ, giving them the missile Launcher or Bright Lance makes them multifaceted.

I use the Missile Launcher because it Pins, even when you fire jut the one shot. HIGH probability of forcing the roll. When used in conjunction with other units, this is quite a useful feature.

It's also STR 8, or an AP 4 small blast, so you really can't lose with the Missile Launcher.

If you have very few anti-tank options otherwise, then the bright Lance makes sense. otherwise, just use the Missile Launcher

Except it's the worst option regardless of pinning or AP4 due to its point cost. Everything in 40k is good or bad due to cost, this is bad because of it.

The Missile Launcher is a jack of all trades weapon for every army, but usually it is priced at the same level as specialist weapons (or cheaper). Eldar get to pay more rather than less, and their specialist weapons usually get a bigger jump in effectiveness. A Bright Lance is much better anti tank than a Missile, even moreso than a Lascannon in the context of the army. Similarly a Scatter Laser or Shuriken Cannon is way better than a Heavy Bolter, which makes the all round option much less attractive (multi shot S6 kills basically anything other than heavy armour, so its already an allrounder tbh).

 Kirasu wrote:
Except it's the worst option regardless of pinning or AP4 due to its point cost. Everything in 40k is good or bad due to cost, this is bad because of it.

If i let cost get in the way of successful strategies, I'd never win a game. Pay the points if your army is built to capitalize. Mine is. My army uses horrify and terrify a lot, and I force you to re-roll pinning tests. So pinning weapons Really pay off for me.

 Jancoran wrote:
. Pay the points if your army is built to capitalize. Mine is. My army uses horrify and terrify a lot, and I force you to re-roll pinning tests. So pinning weapons Really pay off for me.

Pinsanity lists are certainly fun, but VERY gimmicky. Using the pinning of the EML in this kind of list is THE exception to the rule. The cost of the EML does not justify the benefit of pinning. Pinning is negated by high leadership, deamons, or fearless. Of course, you could build an eldar army with pinning everywhere.... so just for fun, I made an 1850 pinsanity list.

HQ

Illic Nightspear

3 warlocks, singing spears

Troops

10x - Guardian Defenders Eldar missile launcher;
> 1x - Wave Serpent; Serpent shield; Twin-linked scatter lasers; Twin-linked shuriken catapult; Holo-fields

10x - Guardian Defenders Eldar missile launcher;
> 1x - Wave Serpent; Serpent shield; Twin-linked scatter lasers; Twin-linked shuriken catapult; Holo-fields

10x - Guardian Defenders Eldar missile launcher;
> 1x - Wave Serpent; Serpent shield; Twin-linked scatter lasers; Twin-linked shuriken catapult; Holo-fields


Fast attack

Hemlock Wraithfighter Heavy D-scythe (x2); Mindshock pod; Spirit stones

Hemlock Wraithfighter Heavy D-scythe (x2); Mindshock pod; Spirit stones

Hemlock Wraithfighter Heavy D-scythe (x2); Mindshock pod; Spirit stones

Heavy support

Vaul's Wraith Support Battery
> 3x - Support weapon; Shadow weaver
> 6x - Guardian crew ; Mesh armour; Plasma grenades; Shuriken catapult

Vaul's Wraith Support Battery
> 3x - Support weapon; Shadow weaver
> 6x - Guardian crew ; Mesh armour; Plasma grenades; Shuriken catapult

Vaul's Wraith Support Battery
> 3x - Support weapon; Shadow weaver
> 6x - Guardian crew ; Mesh armour; Plasma grenades; Shuriken catapult

In this army, every single unit can pin except the warlocks and wraithfighters. Airpower breaks fearless and forces more checks, warlocks can be used to force pinning if they roll horrify, or as support for batteries with conceal or protect. Illic camps with a gun battery squad and splits fire. Fun? Absolutely. Silly? Incredibly? Unorthodox? Of course. Super competitive? No.

I do Bright Lances or Scatter Lasers for my Guardians. That BS 4 has helped them out a ton. And yes, I also take Warlocks. I run a gunline list with a ADL.

Shuriken Cannons all the way for me. Cheap and they compliment the firepower of the units core weapons. 2 in a 20 man squad adds a bit more ooomph to your firing, doesn't feel wasted like Starcannons if you engage Gaunts or Orks while not breaking the bank.

Anything you engage with the catapults also makes a fine target for them. My Guardians get given the role of anti-infantry so I don't want to be paying the points for AT fire.

 Dr. Serling wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
. Pay the points if your army is built to capitalize. Mine is. My army uses horrify and terrify a lot, and I force you to re-roll pinning tests. So pinning weapons Really pay off for me.

Pinsanity lists are certainly fun, but VERY gimmicky. Using the pinning of the EML in this kind of list is THE exception to the rule.
Super competitive? No.

Lol.

Let me ask you a question. Seriously. When you're sittign in the winners circle...do you really care what people think of how "gimmicky" it is? I don't.

And I didn't say my list was pinsanity based. i said the Missile Launcher fits well. Horrify and Terrify are to drive entire dangerous units off the board. pinning is used to stop the closest units from effectively firing down on the important unit. So it is strictly to protect against the close range attacks that will ruin the jets day, or nerf the guy on the Aegis gun.

I will put my tactica against any bean counters wet dream, any day of the week.