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Alright so tomorrow Sunday I got a game scheduled versus some buddies of mine.

4,000 pts Tyranids (me) vs Raven Guard (main detachment) + Black Templar (allied detachment)

This is double force org.

I am expecting to face their typical key units, for the Raven Guard player these are

Storm Raven
Storm Talon
Land Raider Crusader
Assault Centurions
Terminators
Librarian (though he prob might not use it since it always fails him big time lol but he always seems to field it anyway, think last game might've been the last draw for the libby tho)
Scouts
Predator (AC; Las-sponsons)
Chapter Master on foot

The Black Templar player whom is more experienced than the Raven Guard dude typically fields
3 Dreadnoughts (multimelta)
Terminators
2 Chapter Masters (1 on bike with hammer and shield eternal the works; one on foot with armour indomitus and burning blade)
Emperor's champion
Chaplain
3 Attack Bikes (wielding Multi-melta; usually paired with chapter master on bike)
Razorbacks (TL-lascannon)
2 ADL (icarus-lascannons)
Black Templar Crusader squads with some power weapons


The Raven Guard player has never faced my nids before and he's somewhat starting out in the hobby (has yet to defeat any of my armies), The Black Templar player got me into the hobby, plays much less than me, but I'm who he usually faces whenever he does play and knows my style of play very well and usually does pretty good against me. Plus i've helped him built up his black templar forces (the entire BT army he owns used to belong to me) and he's gotten pretty good at using them to the point that our games always tend to be super close. Hasn't faced my nids in 6th much because they've sat on the shelf for most of 6th ed, beating me on my first game back with Nids but being demolished in the 2nd game.


They are prepping to see the following list :

HQ:
Swarmlord
2 Winged Tyrant - 2x devourers

Troops:
2 Tervigon - crushing claws; ag; ts; full psychic powers
2 termangant 10 man units

Heavy Support:
3 Trygons - ts


They saw me play this list and demolish imperial guard w/space wolf allies. And are most likely planning to counter all those units


So now that i've got all the background info out of the way I want to show you guys the 3 lists I came up with to run against them and hopefully get some ideas advice that might make it more interesting.

For the record I am NOT looking for tournament quality as you will notice with my lists I spam a lot and not necessarily only the 'best' choices. I simply like to give all my stuff some play time, but I do like to remain competitive so the idea is to keep a competitive edge while playing for fun and laughs.

I can expect them to do the same.

So in my next 3 posts I'll post up the lists I got planned with some general idea of what I'm planning with it knowing that i'm facing marines and you can give your opinions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
4000 Pts - Tyranids Roster - 4000 List 1

HQ:
1 The Swarmlord, 280 pts (Warlord)
1 Hive Tyrant, 260 pts (TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2; Wings)
1 Hive Tyrant, 260 pts (TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2; Wings)

Elite:
3 Zoanthrope Brood, 180 pts
3 Zoanthrope Brood, 180 pts
3 Zoanthrope Brood, 180 pts
2 Hive Guard Brood, 100 pts
2 Hive Guard Brood, 100 pts

Troops:
6 Tyranid Warrior Brood, 210 pts (Deathspitter)
6 Tyranid Warrior Brood, 210 pts (Deathspitter)
6 Tyranid Warrior Brood, 210 pts (Deathspitter)
1 Tervigon, 235 pts (Crushing Claws; Cluster Spines; AG; TS; Catalyst; Onslaught)
1 Tervigon, 235 pts (Crushing Claws; Cluster Spines; AG; TS; Catalyst; Onslaught)
10 Termagant Brood, 50 pts
10 Termagant Brood, 50 pts

Fast Attack:
6 Ravener Brood, 210 pts (Rending Claws)
20 Gargoyle Brood, 140 pts (TS)
20 Gargoyle Brood, 140 pts (TS)
20 Gargoyle Brood, 140 pts (TS)

Heavy Support:
1 Trygon, 210 pts (TS)
1 Trygon, 210 pts (TS)
1 Trygon, 210 pts (TS)

Total Roster Cost: 4000


My first list created catered to my desire for psychic powaaaa!! And an urge to field all my zoanthropes as the centerpiece of the army. As well as tons of gargoyles to make a first wave distraction along with the winged-deviltyrants, raveners and trygons, keeping them busy until the swarmlord, zoanthropes, warriors and hopefully tons and tons of termagants hit their lines on turn 3.

My dilemna has come in the shape of deciding which psychic disciplines to use! I have so much psychic might here that i'm perplexed

On one hand I feel like rolling everything on Biomancy for everyone. Tyrants hoping for Iron Arm/Endurance, Zoanthropes hoping for Endurance/Enfeeble with Life Leech/Smite as witchfires, Tervigons hoping for Iron Arm/Endurance/Enfeeble to play a psychic support role all day.

I most definetly want the zoanthropes to play a support/attack role with witchfire AND blessing/maledictions on each.

I think the winged tyrants and tervigons are almost decidedly rolling all their powers on biomancy.

The zoanthropes however i'm also considering rolling on telekinesis for, hoping for Gate of Infinity/Telekine Dome/Objuration Mechanicum. But only doing 1 roll for each zoanthrope on Telekinesis table as I don't like that primaris at all, seems rather useless and there's no useful witchfire on that table. So if i land Crush or Shockwave I would move onto rolling on biomancy/telepathy

Speaking of Telepathy i'm also considering zoanthropes to roll all their powers on this table as I really LOVE psychic shriek (that power is friggin awesome and can easily kill any flavor of space marine) with puppet master and dominate also being valid candidates.

So for this list I'm strongly looking for psychic power combination recommendations for the zoanthropes (they are welcomed for the other units as well) how do I best harass space marines?

Also let me point out...I don't own any mycetic spores


Automatically Appended Next Post:
4000 Pts - Tyranids Roster - 4000 List 2 (Variation A)

HQ:
1 Tyranid Prime, 110 pts (Lash Whip & Bonesword; Deathspitter; TS)
1 Tyranid Prime, 110 pts (Lash Whip & Bonesword; Deathspitter; TS)
1 Hive Tyrant, 260 pts (TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2; Wings)
1 Hive Tyrant, 260 pts (TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2; Wings)

Elite:
1 The Doom of Malan'tai, 90 pts

Troops:
5 Tyranid Warrior Brood, 250 pts (Lash Whip & Bonesword; TS)
5 Tyranid Warrior Brood, 250 pts (Lash Whip & Bonesword; TS)
6 Tyranid Warrior Brood, 210 pts (Deathspitter)
6 Tyranid Warrior Brood, 210 pts (Deathspitter)
6 Tyranid Warrior Brood, 210 pts (Deathspitter)
1 Tervigon, 205 pts (Crushing Claws; Cluster Spines; AG; TS)
1 Tervigon, 205 pts (Crushing Claws; Cluster Spines; AG; TS)
20 Termagant Brood, 200 pts (Devourer)
20 Termagant Brood, 200 pts (Devourer)

Fast Attack:
4 Tyranid Shrike Brood, 200 pts (Boneswords (x2); TS)
4 Tyranid Shrike Brood, 200 pts (Boneswords (x2); TS)
4 Tyranid Shrike Brood, 200 pts (Boneswords (x2); TS)

Heavy Support:
1 Trygon, 210 pts (TS)
1 Trygon, 210 pts (TS)
1 Trygon, 210 pts (TS)

Total Roster Cost: 4000

So yesterday I suddenly thought 'oooh wait a minute! They don't own anything that can shoot large S8 blast weapons, aside from 2 or 3 Orbital Bombardments which can just as easily scatter off in the distance, why don't I dust off these warriors?!'

So I built a list using every warrior at my disposal. Warrior spam!
I acknowledge that this list is much weaker on paper than list 1. But if there's ever been a good time to run mass warriors I think this would be it, since I don't have to worry about high strength blasts being dropped on me all over the table.

Winged Tyrants, Shrikes w/Boneswords, Trygons would make the early wave of harassment i'd most likely have to deploy them all in one flank to ensure that they cannot deal with all targets. Probably on the 'shootiest' flank to keep their fire power focused on one location and away from the rest of my army that will be walking/running it across the table.

The doom of malantai on foot with psychic shriek power should do very well steathly running with the rest of the army since I assume most of their fire power will be focused on taking out 3 trygons, 12 shrikes and 2 winged tyrants.

Any thoughts? Anyone got experience running warriors against marines? how effective are they? The guns seem like they would do very little damage even 6 warrios with deathspitters only kill 2 space marines per turn which is a joke.

Variation B - Important Note: I also have an alternate variation to this list where I drop the 2 tyranid primes and the doom of malantai to take a Swarmlord and give the tervigons a little extra power. So that's also up for consideration as my third list.

So which of these 3 do you consider to be a better threat to space marines and which would you recommend I run ?

If you're comfortable about their lack of S8, I like the warrior list more. My critique for that list, however, is that it seems to want some gargoyles in there. I'm not sure what would be easiest to drop, but there's my two cents.

For those interested to know how the game transpired, I used list #2, the one with all the warriors and won the game by a pretty sweet margin.

First off their army list:
4000 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster - Raven Guard w/Black Templar Allies

Chapter Tactics: Raven Guard

HQ:
1 Librarian, 105 pts (Force Axe; Mastery Level 2; Plasma Pistol x1)
1 Chapter Master, 150 pts (Power Sword x1; Storm Bolter x1)

Elite:
1 Ironclad Dreadnought, 135 pts

2 Centurion Assault Squad, 200 pts (Twin-Linked Meltagun x2)
1 Centurion Sergeant

4 Terminator Squad, 225 pts (Cyclone Missile Launcher x1)
1 Terminator Sergeant

Troops:
4 Scout Squad, 70 pts (Camo Cloaks; Sniper Rifle x4)
1 Sergeant (Camo Cloaks; Sniper Rifle)

9 Tactical Squad, 150 pts (Meltagun)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Boltgun)

9 Tactical Squad, 155 pts (Plasma gun)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Boltgun)

9 Tactical Squad, 155 pts (Plasma gun)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Boltgun)

Fast Attack:
2 Bike Squad, 63 pts
1 Biker Sergeant

1 Stormtalon Gunship, 145 pts (Typhoon Missile Launcher)

Heavy Support:
1 Predator, 115 pts (Lascannon (each side))

4 Devastator Squad, 145 pts (Missile Launcher x2; Flakk Missiles x1; Lascannon x1)
1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Boltgun)

1 Stormraven Gunship, 230 pts (Hurricane Bolters (each side))

Chapter Tactics: Black Templars

HQ:
1 Chapter Master, 245 pts (Bolt Pistol)
1 The Burning Blade; Armour of Indomitus

1 Chapter Master, 250 pts (Artificer Armour; Thunder Hammer x1; Space Marine Bike)
1 The Shield Eternal

Elite:
4 Terminator Assault Squad, 200 pts
1 Terminator Sergeant

4 Terminator Assault Squad, 470 pts (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield x3)
1 Terminator Sergeant (Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield)
1 Land Raider Crusader

Troops:
5 Crusader Squad, 145 pts
1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Lascannon)

5 Crusader Squad, 145 pts
1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Lascannon)

9 Crusader Squad, 235 pts (Flamer; Power Sword)
1 Sword Brother (Lightning Claw x2)
1 Rhino (Storm Bolter)

Fast Attack:
3 Attack Bike Squad, 165 pts (Multi-melta x3)

Fortifications:
1 Aegis Defence Lines, 100 pts
1 Gun Emplacement (Quad-gun)

Total Roster Cost: 3998