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So I have been playing 40k since around the start of 5th ed. I have multiple fun armies including DA, BA, Tyranids, and an iron hands army. I've had to face multiple stronger lists in tournaments at my FLGS lately including Wave serpent spam and a reduced tau / eldar list (I think the guy only owns 1 riptide atm). I was considering starting to build a highly competitive army for tournies. Was not looking into the GK / Necron flyer wing because I hate necrons. What other really strong armies have a very good tournament presence for lists and can you give me a general example of those lists?

Tyranids can be competitive. But, they're spammy, and about to be updated, so I won't say more. BA are just kinda bad for now. DA are decent, if you take lots of bikes with Powerfield generators and the banner of bolters. And librarians, those are sweet.

Iron hands may be your best bet... take a single max bike squad, with Chapter Master on a bike with Relic Shield and a hammer. Then, lots of shooty tacticals to grab objectives, and Thunderfires and Predators. IH are very strong currently.

Flying circus Daemons
Fateweaver + FMC spam
Screamerstar
-This isnt a GT winner bt shows up in tournaments. Disk heralds + screamers
Taudar
Tau and eldar shooty shooty
Eldau
See above
Eldar serpent spam
Get like 5 wave serpents and just shoot everything and drive away from stuff you dont like
Riptide spam tau
Heldrake CSM
2-3 Drakes wipes your troops out
White scars aint bad
Grav gun spam
Necron Air
Cresents with x5 warriors in them
Wraithwing Necron
Spam wraiths

kk, I was looking at running the iron hand as a drop pod army with 6 iron clads, I know that isn't the durable list. It would still have CM with shield and hammer. The list I was looking at running was CM, MOTF, 6x Iron clads w/ drop pods, 5x tactical squads w/ meltas in drop pods. Never have found the truly unbeatable list as nids so far. I know it has to do with flyrants with 2x devourers and tervigons.

I think I'm more of looking for a list from an army I don't own yet seeing as how I need to make purchases at tourneys for entry and I have everything I need for those 3 armies. I run a full ravenwing for my DA, BA is an all DC army, which sucks horribly for actual gameplay, but I have never had an opponent with more than 1 unit left on the table


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Flying circus daemons? I'm guessing that has to do with flying DP's and a couple greater daemons IE thirsters or lords of change? I may think about daemons since they also have the screamer star thing I could run which seems semi competitive

Flying circus has been a GT winner and a powerful list in a lot o tournaments.

Flying circus consists of taking fateweaver (99% of the time) and a bunch of tzeentch/slaanesh princes. Use plaguebearers or horrors to hold objectives. The grimoire makes fateweaver invulnerable. There is a nurgle version.

curious on why the slaanesh princes. Grimoire I'm taking it you have like another LoC holding onto it since it can't affect it's holder. Nurgle version also sounds dirty since if I'm flying and I get into area terrain I have a 3+ cover save against any shots and it doesn't slow my movement at all. I also like the idea of plagues holding objectives since you drop them in terrain and they are pretty set for life. I may look into working on this list since daemons seem like a really fun army.

The main reasons to go Nurgle would be the Balesword (if your opponent is bringing Wraithknights and/or lots of monstrous creatures) and a GUO warlord, which can be nearly impossible to kill.
Slaanesh princes can take the Lash, which gives them some very powerful anti-air firepower (2d6 shots at BS5 and strength 6-9, depending on Iron Arm).

Honestly, I would say this list is less competitive than Screamer Star. It will struggle against the common Tau and Eldar builds, which are currently dominating most tournaments. It's certainly not weak, but you'll definitely have some unfavorable match-ups if you bring it to a tournament.

More and more, I am starting to think Daemons is the most competitive codex out there.

I saw someone playing a Screamerstar this weekend and finally got it about why it's so powerful. He just cleaned up against a Tau army, the game was basically over after 3 turns.

I am also a fan of Eldar Waveserpent lists but don't really get how they are supposed to be used. It just seems like there are a lot of things that can go wrong with that army.

Torrent of fire will tell you what armies are winning most often (ie, the best) If we want to Look at Allies, out of army combinations that have played at least 20 games.

1.) Eldar + Tau winning 71.7%
2.) Tau + Eldar Winning 68.25%
3.) Tau + Space Marines winning 66.67%
4.) Space Marines + Space Marines 65%
5.) Tau + Tau 63%
6.) Chaos Daemons + CSM 63%
7.) Eldar + Dark Eldar 61.8%
8.) Necrons +CSM 61.8%
9.) Necron + Tau 60%
10.) Tau 59.2%

So which armies are the most competitive? There you go. Pick which one you think is best out of those combos and we can talk about what the list looks like.

Chaos Daemons + Chaos Space Marines then to me looks pretty good. I'm taking for granted that it probably includes a flying circus + hell drake and probably oblits? I know there is an argument on another thread about grimoire and CSM making them 2+. I'm curious how a daemon prince of slaanesh rolls up iron arm unless they aren't held by the rules of normal mark of x can only roll on tree x.

I wonder if I can't squeeze a screamer star into a flying circus list as well. I know I won't have the spam of heralds to guarentee that I get the forwarning power every game, but maybe up the psychic level of a few tzeentch princes enough.enough.

Daemon princes get their base tree plus telepathy and biomancy so slaanesh princes have a shot at iron arm.

Tzeentch princes cannot roll divination so you can't make the screamer star work with them. You'll need heralds or LoC's.

Tyranids have some tough lists too. You said you play them so I'll throw out my build.

I took this to a con and won with it. It's a spoiler list and if you came expecting to face tau/eldar you're probably not ready to beat it.

Swarmlord, 1 guard
Doom in a pod
3zoanthropes
3 pyrovores in a pod

2 Tervigons with ts and ag, 3 powers
20 gants

25 or so fully upgraded gargoyles

1 biovore

Firestorm redoubt

Faced 2 space marine armies and a 3 riptide/3 hammerhead list.

Tyranids are in a good position to defeat a lot of daemon armies and probably have the best chance to beat them out of everyone. The more tau/eldar rely on MCs the stronger we become against them too.

Firestorm redoubt, isn't that an apocalypse model? It seems ok since it can still fire at BS2 even without people manning it, IE Tyranids not being able to shoot emplaced guns. taking catalyst and onslaught for the 3 powers to allow the tervigons to roll 3 times on the biomancy tree I'm taking it for granted. fully upgraded gargoyles meaning TS and AG? Pyrovore's I've never tried before, but they seem to be a legitimate strategy. Curious also on the biovore, I never see people use those


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HQ:
300 Kairos Fateweaver
125 Herald of Tzeentch w/ disc, LVL 3, Exalted gift
120 Herald of Tzeentch w/ LVL 3, Exalted locus of conjuration

Troops:
90 10x Pink Horrors
90 10x Plaguebearers
90 10x Plaguebearers

Fast Attack:
225 9x Screamers of Tzeentch

Heavy Support:
320 Daemon Prince w/ Tzeentch, Lvl 2, flight, warp forged armor, 2x greater gifts
320 Daemon Prince w/ Tzeentch, Lvl 2, flight, warp forged armor, 2x greater gifts
320 Daemon Prince w/ Tzeentch, Lvl 2, flight, warp forged armor, 2x greater gifts

Looking at something like this if it was a flying circus / screamer star. Not sure how competitive this is though