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I am just getting into W40K and I have chosen Tau as my first army. I decided to go with a 1k army to start with and I wanted to post my gunline army thoughts on here and see what you guys could offer me as far as advice and reviews and whatnot. Try not to be to harsh. I like the sit back and shoot style of play and deal massive damage and then move in to mop up hence going with the glass cannons eerrr I mean Tau. =)

Riptide x1 = 225 points
-T.L. Smart Missiles
-Ion Accelerator
-Riptide shield Generator
-Early Warning Override
-Stimulant Injector
-Nova Reactor

The riptide will be my anti air/anti drop pod Battle suit

Broadside x2 = 146 points
-T.L. Heavy Rail Rifle
-T.L. Smart Missile System
-Seeker Missile

The broadsides will be my anti vehicle suits with the counter tank capability as well as the riptide having counter tank capabilities

Fire Warrior Team x4 = 412 points
-Pulse Rifles
-Photon Grenades
-Shas'Ui
-->Shas'Ui Markerlight & Target Lock
-Gun Drone x2
--> Gun Drones have T.L. Pulse Carbines giving each Fire Warrior Team the ability to pin

Gave shas'ui's a markerlight to make every fire warrior team as deadly as a pathfinder team because of being able to guide a seeker missile in which according to my local shop owner is why pathfinder teams usually get gunned for very quickly

Pathfinder Team x2 = 160 points
-+1 Pathfinder
-Pulse Carbines
-Photon Grenades
-Markerlights
-Shas'Ui
-->Shas'Ui Rail Rifle

Gave my shas'ui a rail rifle for added anti vehicle capabilities on top of the threat of markerlights

Ethereal x1 = 55 points
-Warblade


So in a 1000 point army I havnt seen many flyers as they are very point expensive generally speaking but I still have anti flyer capabilities with my Riptide. I have anti tank and anti vehicle capabilities through my riptide, broadsides, seeker missiles, markerlights and pathfinder rail rifles. I have good anti-infantry through my pathfinders long range Pulse rifles as well as pin ability through the gun drones in each squad and all Tau having Overwatch capability. Please let me know what you think of this as a beginner army.

I'm thinking of getting back into 40k myself. Started as Eldar back in 2nd and 3rd edition but thinking Tau and maybe a little Eldar now.

Looks like a good beginning list to my eye, although maybe the counter attack for Broadsides isn't necessary. You'll want them right at the back and if they are assaulted they will die no matter what (the enemy will commit forces to do the job properly if they are a big threat). Instead maybe shield drones?

Does no one go for any flyers or stealth suits any more?

Hi you have a good starter list but I would offer a couple of tweaks

I would remove the missle drone from your HQ as the str 7 assault 2 is nice but the points would be better spent I would also drop the rail rifle from your path finders as that's 27 points and if you can add a ADL which would give your troops a 4+ cover save. Also it means you could have a quad gun str 7 ap4 twin linked skyfire & intercepter gun so you can take that off of your riptide cuz if he shoots a fly/ drop pod he can't shoot at the fast approaching enermy that want to assault you

All the battles I've had with my tau I have used ADL and its a life saver if you have a hord of orks or nids bearing down on you the cover save and difficult terrain test will save you lots of casualties

Hope this gives you some food for thought

Thank you for the replies. An ADL sounds like a good idea. Taking skyfire off my riptide also frees a lot of points. I am not sure but does the Ethereal have any attacks of his own without upgrading him with drones or a weapon both of which cost points?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have seen people take stealth suits and flyers in 1000 point armies but honestly I don't like the way ive seen stealth suits play and for my very first 1k point army I wanted to stay away from flyers until ive got a month or two worth of games under my belt and I can see how I would want to use one or even if I would want to use one. Like I said atm I am aiming for the sit back and shoot play style and then mop up once opponent has taken mass casualties. I think an ADL would be very helpful so maybe i'll switch some stuff around to get that.

The ethereal only has close combat no shooting the only reason to have one is to fill your hq slot and for the ln>ocation of the Elements rule the ADL is 50 points and quad is 50 point if you can't stretch to that you can have a Icarus lascannon str 9 ap 2 skyfire & interception for 35 points and I think your spot on about flyers don't bother the movement rules make them a waste

You will want to remove the exact points costs from the list as it can get Dakka in trouble with GW. Just a fyi

oh im sorry I didn't know that would get them in trouble. I can see why it would though. ill edit that right now.

As per the FAQ to the Tau Codex, only Broadsides may take Missile Drones.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3170231a_Tau_Empire_v1.0_APRIL13.pdf

Solves that problem.

Your list is a good start for only having 1k points to work with.

As a side note, you may want to switch your Broadsides from Heavy Rail Rifles to High Yield Missile Pod depending on your army. You'll benefit more from the higher number of shots from the HYMP over the HRR.

But as a new Tau player, check out http://www.advancedtautactica.com. It is a wonderful source of information for all that is Tau.

Pretty good starting list but I would recommend a Hammerhead just in case you come across anything armour 14

1. The riptide is nice, and can work but you are honestly expecting flyers at 1,000 pts?? Which flyer do you expect to see if any?

I personally would drop velocity tracker in favor of stimulant injector.

Also if you are dead set on velocity tracker then drop the smart missiles and add a tl-fusion blaster. All flyers will fear you greatly.

2. Broadsides work best with missiles specially for anti vehicle role which seems to be what you are interested in

3. drop marker lights on firewarriors focus on shooting. your store owner is wrong, people fear pathfinders because they can easily remove cover and improve ballistic skill. Specially at 1k points you won't be seeing too many vehicles that you need to load up on seeker missiles. Seeker Missiles are nice but you will be fine even if you have 0 seeker missiles.

4. Pathfinders are awesome load up on them and mark things for your units to shoot at.

3. Etheral works best with firewarriors and sniper drones. Get yourself some sniper drones you won't be disappointed they put out massive firepower with an ethereal boosting them.

Your list looks like a solid start, if you want gunline play i recommend more firewarriors and most definetly sniper drones.

So I am not exactly EXPECTING to see a flyer...however...I am DEATHLY afraid of the Death Turkey coming out and not being able to do anything about it. I'm not sure what the real name for that unit is ive forgotten but im pretty sure everyone knows the chaos flying beast of death im talking about. I just don't want a flyer like that to come out and wreck 3/4 of my army before I can do anything about it. I did however redo my list and tweak it. I dropped Velocity Tracker for Stim Injector which now that I reread it is very nice addition. I also gave both broadsides the overwatch boost. I don't have my book in front of me atm but it allows them to fire overwatch at a higher BS.


Either way thank you all for your amazing feedback. I've seen some pretty unfriendly remarks towards some of the starters like myself and I'm glad I got something constructive...well ALOT of constructive from this. I plan on play testing this for a few weeks and then moving up to 1500 or 2k points and im sure youll see another list from me here eventually. =)

Hey man, tau are far from glass cannons if you learn how to use them right quite the opposite, especially their tanks with 4+jink saves, really pees on peoples chips haha! Can I make a suggestion? Putting high yield missles on your broadsides and giving them early warning override gives you much more options than heavy rail rifles. You get 4 twin linked shots at str7 per suit. And they will have interceptor. Nice against anything that deepstrikes or pods in. Also very nice against flyers! You should be averaging 3 hits, 4 if your lucky, that's 3 str 7 hits against low front armour which covers you nicely and also they are great for popping transports on the ground and dealing with hordes. Were they can use their smart missles aswell for 8 shots each! Ouch! I would remove the seeker from them as you don't really need it. Another suggestion is to switch the smart missle system on your riptide for a twin linked fusion blaster. This gives you great anti tank as you can ripple fire it for 2 shots and can rip av14 wide open. Thus leaving your broadsides to do their thing

My thought process, and again forgive me for being so new, but as I was saying my thought process was that I was taking the rail rifle vs. the missiles on my broadsides because of the AP1. Is it really not worth it compared to getting more hits at a lesser range with less AP?

The kneejerk response when anyone posts a list including HRR broadsides is "Change them to HYMPs because they get more shots."

HYMPs also have much shorter range. They're also AP4. My theory is that a lot of people play on tiny table spaces in GWS shops where range doesn't matter.

HRRs are good, for all the reasons you think they are. They are -much- better against vehicles, and anything with an armor save. They are more effective versus a much wider range of threats than the missiles. And I promise you, they can take care of vehicles. A ton of ST7 hits will glance light armor to death, for sure, but when you start getting toward AV11 and 12 tanks with 3 hull points, you're gonna want that AP1.

Also, shooting monstrous creatures at long range. Also, killing bikes.

If you want a ton of S7 AP4 shooting, you can get it elsewhere (Crisis suits with missile pods, who can JSJ and take advantage of the shorter range). Heck, you can have it IN the same squad as the broadsides, in the form of missile drones, which are awesome with Markerlight support.

Another thing I would recommend is the use of an ethereal. If you plan on playing that many firewarriors, why not give them an awesome boost to shred any army seeking to assault you. Imagine what 36 str 5 ap 5 shots at 15", especially if you used markerlights to boost their bs to 5...

Food for thought

I did actually take an ethereal. Hes the last unit at the bottom but thank you for recomending that it just reinforces my confidence in taking him. I actually have been playing at work with my buddy by splitting my army in half and taking out the riptide and ethereal just to get a feel for how the units play out and im quite certain that all those shots would wreck face at 15'' when other units are just getting into range for the first shots at an average of 18''.

I definitly see how the HYMP would impact play when fighting against hordes or like a biker army but also versus a tank or MC. I guess it will be on me to decide when i see the army i am playing as well as the size of the table because like you said CDRAlbrecht most table tops in the shops are maybe 30'' across so range really isnt an issue where as some people play lengthwise and it does help out alot.

I have bought and painted my army and now I will be starting a new thread about my 1500 point ideas. Please feel free to stop over and comment on that as well and thank you so much for your valuable input. your thoughts and suggestions have definitly shaped my army and starting W40K experience for the better.

CDRAlbrecht wrote:
The kneejerk response when anyone posts a list including HRR broadsides is "Change them to HYMPs because they get more shots."

HYMPs also have much shorter range. They're also AP4. My theory is that a lot of people play on tiny table spaces in GWS shops where range doesn't matter.

HRRs are good, for all the reasons you think they are. They are -much- better against vehicles, and anything with an armor save. They are more effective versus a much wider range of threats than the missiles. And I promise you, they can take care of vehicles. A ton of ST7 hits will glance light armor to death, for sure, but when you start getting toward AV11 and 12 tanks with 3 hull points, you're gonna want that AP1.

Also, shooting monstrous creatures at long range. Also, killing bikes.

If you want a ton of S7 AP4 shooting, you can get it elsewhere (Crisis suits with missile pods, who can JSJ and take advantage of the shorter range). Heck, you can have it IN the same squad as the broadsides, in the form of missile drones, which are awesome with Markerlight support.

That's a nice list of some of the pros of HRR but you seem to be purposely misleading the OP with a lot of the stuff you said, which is simply not true and ANYONE with a basic concept of math can simply work out the numbers and see the facts.

You failed to mention why HYMP are simply better.

HYMP > HRR

- More shots, more hits and similar strength, equals more wounds
- This means HYMP is useful against a wider range of targets!
- Monstrous Creatures and FMC don't give a damn about HRR, seriously go ahead shoot my FMC with your 1 shot and good luck getting a hit. The math is NOT working in your favor. Monstrous Creatures save on 3+, 3 wounds on them from HYMP will yield the same result more reliably than 1 wound from your HRR (assuming they are getting a 5+ cover save which is SUPER easy for MCs to get nowadays.

In fact let me show you the actual math on this using the ever useful heresy calculator
Broadside
Shots: 1
Hit Chance: 75%
Hits: 0.75
Wound Chance: 83.33%
Wounds: 0.625
Saved Wounds: 0.208
Unsaved Wounds: 0.417
Models Killed: 0.104
Options:
Reroll Hit, Ignore Armour

Now lets shoot at the same target with HYMP and see what happens
Broadside
Shots: 4
Hit Chance: 75%
Hits: 3
Wound Chance: 66.67%
Wounds: 2
Saved Wounds: 1.333
Unsaved Wounds: 0.667
Models Killed: 0.167
Options:
Reroll Hit

So there you have factual proof that HYMP > HRR vs Monstrous Creatures in a typical scenario. So what about FMC?

HRR
Broadside
Shots: 1
Hit Chance: 30.56%
Hits: 0.306
Wound Chance: 83.33%
Wounds: 0.255
Saved Wounds: 0.085
Unsaved Wounds: 0.17
Models Killed: 0.042
Options:
Reroll Hit, Ignore Armour

HYMP
Broadside
Shots: 4
Hit Chance: 30.56%
Hits: 1.222
Wound Chance: 66.67%
Wounds: 0.815
Saved Wounds: 0.543
Unsaved Wounds: 0.272
Models Killed: 0.068
Options:
Reroll Hit

Once again it's clear which one is better.

Now let's say you have killed all vehicles or monstrous creatures and there's only infantry around. Nowadays this is usually T3 Sv4/5+ save models but for the sake of argument let's say they are MEQ. And use a tactical squad for the example

HRR vs Tactical Squad
Broadside
Shots: 1
Hit Chance: 75%
Hits: 0.75
Wound Chance: 83.33%
Wounds: 0.625
Saved Wounds: 0.208
Unsaved Wounds: 0.417
Models Killed: 0.417
Options:
Reroll Hit, Ignore Armour, Instakill


HYMP vs Tactical Squad
Broadside
Shots: 4
Hit Chance: 75%
Hits: 3
Wound Chance: 83.33%
Wounds: 2.5
Saved Wounds: 1.667
Unsaved Wounds: 0.833
Models Killed: 0.833
Options:
Reroll Hit

Once again HYMP > HRR

So you want to argue that HRR is still better against vehicles! Ok...let's see if that's true

HRR vs Transports

Rhino
Hits: 0.75
Glancing Hits: 0.125
Penetration Hits: 0.375

Wave Serpent
Hits: 0.75
Glancing Saves: 0.063
Penetration Saves: 0.125
Glancing Hits: 0.063
Penetration Hits: 0.125


HYMP vs Transports

Rhino
Hits: 3
Glancing Hits: 0.5
Penetration Hits: 1

Wave Serpent (with a 4+ jink save)
Hits: 3
Glancing Saves: 0.25
Penetration Saves: 0.25
Glancing Hits: 0.25
Penetration Hits: 0.25

So as you can see the HYMP > HRR yet again even against vehicle transports. Having more shots at a very similar strength = more effective in every single case.

In fact the only thing HRR is potentially better at is killing models with a 2+ save and toughness 4. Which are typically HQs or paladins or something similar.

And HRR has a better chance against AV13 and AV14 vehicles which are not nearly as common as everything else that the HYMP are much better at.

These are the FACTS use a calcular and see for yourself. Math doesn't lie