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I have been building up my WAAAGH for some time now, and I am at an impasse,
I decided that my core army should be Trukkbased (lots of sluggaboyz in trukks, Big Mek with KFF to support them, flying across the field)
I am at at 4 trukks full of boyz, and plan on going up to 5,
the supporting part of my army consists of Lootas, Big Gunz and singleman squads of Deffkoptas (I shy away from dakkajets at this time)
So here is my dilemma:
I am not sure wether to take a trukk or two full of nobs, 2 trukks with 3x meganobs each (one with a warboss, one with the big mek), or just go for a very tough group of nob bikers (with a warboss biker)
how would the combinations work with the core of my army at varius army sizes in comparison to each other and what do you guys recommend to me to focus on in such an army ?

It depends on what you need this unit to do :

_MANz in Trukks are "missiles". You aim them at a target, destroy it, and then you pray there's not enough AP2 weapons around or they're toast. They're not meant to do anything crazy, and if you lose them it's no biggie.

_Nob bikers are a "deathstar", unless you only take 3 or 4. They're meant to attract a lot of firepower and to crush dangerous units in CC. They're so expensive that you have to be careful how you use them. If you lose them early you're in trouble.

_Nob in Trukks are between these two. They're neither a true deathstar (too fragile), nor an expendable unit (too expensive). Imo, they pale in comparison to MANz and Bikers and should be avoided for the time being.

Nob bikers are nice because they don't rely on trukks (those die easy) and they're inherently fast. They also have 4+ cover, 4+ armor and FNP all the time.

I'd take a maxed out squad with FNP, cybork bodies, 1 Waagh banner, 2 boss poles, 3 power klaws and the rest big choppas with a warboss with power klaw/attack squig and cybork bodies. You park them in front of your trukks for cover (unless you already have a KFF) and then run around smashing.

Bikers, My frined plays a huge squad of these guys and they've never been cracked once. Mobile Nob troop picks with Fnp, a 4+ Cover, 5+ Armor, and maybe an inv. Quite tough.

 Nym wrote:
It depends on what you need this unit to do :

_MANz in Trukks are "missiles". You aim them at a target, destroy it, and then you pray there's not enough AP2 weapons around or they're toast. They're not meant to do anything crazy, and if you lose them it's no biggie.

_Nob bikers are a "deathstar", unless you only take 3 or 4. They're meant to attract a lot of firepower and to crush dangerous units in CC. They're so expensive that you have to be careful how you use them. If you lose them early you're in trouble.

_Nob in Trukks are between these two. They're neither a true deathstar (too fragile), nor an expendable unit (too expensive). Imo, they pale in comparison to MANz and Bikers and should be avoided for the time being.

I do like this type of thinking.
I was thinking of a 5man Nob Biker squad (painboy, cybork bodies, 1 claw waagh banner bosspole, the rest big choppas) with a warboss on a bike with them (this is why I already made 3 of the nob bikers from the battleforce boxset).
But the more I think about it, the more I think MANz in Trukks are more akin to the strategy of fielding lots of trukks+ supporting fire

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:
Nob bikers are nice because they don't rely on trukks (those die easy) and they're inherently fast. They also have 4+ cover, 4+ armor and FNP all the time.

I'd take a maxed out squad with FNP, cybork bodies, 1 Waagh banner, 2 boss poles, 3 power klaws and the rest big choppas with a warboss with power klaw/attack squig and cybork bodies. You park them in front of your trukks for cover (unless you already have a KFF) and then run around smashing.

1 squad of 10man squad of nobbikers with 4 claws in it? Isn't that a giant waste of points ? i mean that one squad and the boss are worth like 815 points 0.o

^^
Well that would be his entire army.

A waste of points? Well, one tarpit and game over for the rest of your plan.

 Delevarius wrote:

 Nym wrote:

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:
Nob bikers are nice because they don't rely on trukks (those die easy) and they're inherently fast. They also have 4+ cover, 4+ armor and FNP all the time.

I'd take a maxed out squad with FNP, cybork bodies, 1 Waagh banner, 2 boss poles, 3 power klaws and the rest big choppas with a warboss with power klaw/attack squig and cybork bodies. You park them in front of your trukks for cover (unless you already have a KFF) and then run around smashing.

1 squad of 10man squad of nobbikers with 4 claws in it? Isn't that a giant waste of points ? i mean that one squad and the boss are worth like 815 points 0.o

I just said that's what I'd take. With assault armies I find it's more effective to go all or nothing. I'm not sure how many points he has available, but I have had massive success with that build.

There really aren't any 'tar pits' they can't blow through in a turn or two. Between a 12" move, 33 str 5 shots (for 11 bikes), impact hits and a brutal amount of WS5 attacks on the charge they are perhaps one of the most effective tarpit clearing units. I've only ever lost them once and it was because I got over confident and multi-assaulted 3 squads of blood angels, broke 2 of them and then got assaulted by those two squads which resulted in so many attacks that they all were killed.

That's what I would warn you of. You can bounce lascannon shots off all day with the Nobz but if a squad of sternguard drops in and starts hitting you with a ton of 2+ poison rounds that's when your Nobz will go down hard. Beware the death of a thousand cuts. That and JotWW... I3 really helps but you're still statistically going to lose 1/2 of them and there really isn't anything you can do about it.

The issue with Nob or MegaNob Mobs in a Transport or on Bikes is Leadership 7. You have to bring more than 7 to begin to overcome this, and at that point the unit becomes too costly for the job it is to perform. Or you could put a LD8 or 9 HQ with them, at which point they become the target priority. You will pay 35 points to see their Open-topped AV10 Trukk on the table for a turn before you have to take it off and they footslog. Nob Bikers can take damage without losing mobility.

As for the Trukk Rush idea, I would recommend 6X11Boyz Mobz (one of them being a PK Nob, and leaving a space open for the Mek to jump in when his Trukk is blown up), 2 KFF Big Meks with PKs, and maybe some Nob or MegaNob Mobz if you have the points for them.

If you would like to complement the Trukks with Nob Bikerz, take a Bike Boss to make them troops and preserve their LD. 5-7 is a good number, 1-2 PKs, Painboy and Cybork.

Even better is to drop the Trukk idea and take 3 Battlewagons of 19 Boyz with a KFF Big Mek in the middle and a Bike Boss with Nob Bikerz on the flank. The survivability is much higher, and you do not lose that much speed.

That is the primary idea

The choice for enlarging the army is between
2 Trukks with 3x MANz (one with the big mek one with a MA Warboss)
(370~ points)
or
5-6 Nob Bikers in a squad with a Warboss on bike
(495~ points)
The question of the thread was and still is what is the better upgrade to the core of my. Would the MANz sinergize better, or are the Bikers good enough to warrant fielding them instead of MANz in trukks.
I also wanted to know how would either work ingame vs opponents.
I have fielded a 3-man (+ a Warboss) squad of Nob Bikers at 1000 points, and they either soak a full turn of shots and die (leaving my trukks to rampage across the battlefield) or are partially ignored and start picking off 1 target after the other

P.S. @Ghenghis Jon I dont like the Battlewagons plan, 6th ed has alot of ways to pop them as easy as trukks, and most people wield those weapons since they are good against other armies too, On the other hand, Trukks are faster and expendable past Turn 1, and you can field alot more of them

-If you are sharing your elite slots with Lootas then you might want the nob biker death star for force org reasons. This thinking works with trukks also because the trukks can provide a valueable LOS object that has to be shot before you start taking the concentrated fire that nob bikers will inevitably see.

-If you want meganobz in a trukk you almost have to have two small units of them, conflicting with how many lootas you can have. If you are going meganobz then you might want your boyz in deffrollawagons to help make a few more targets for some of the AP2 and 1 weapons that will also be used on your meganobz.

I have 6 warbikes I got from two of the starter kits for orks that I made into a nob biker unit. My friend let me proxy one as a bikerboss and one as a painboy (WIP). Consumed a Landraider whole with them and proceeded to have a glorious fight with a full assault-kitted BT Crusader Squad including Grimmaldous, a Techmarine, and an Emperor's Champion. They are a wrecking ball in CC.

EDIT, I posted this while you posted your above post, if you want trukks then I think you want nob bikers instead of MANz because I think you won't have enough target saturation to prevent the MANz from being focused by even a limited amount of AP2.

here is how I am finding sucess with orks,

I either have all foot sloggers, 4-5 maxed out 30 man boyz, supported by 45 kommandos, a unit of warbikers+bikerbosses

or my new trukk + battle wagon force, 3 wagons, + 3 trukks
which has some interesting option for blocking LOS to the truks with the battle wagons, allowing me to actually get stuff across the board when I dont get 1st turn.

battlewagons at 4hps and av 14 do suprisingly well as the meta around here has def shifted away from armour, there are very few lascannons out there, and even less str 10 to deal with them.

I have been having great sucess with just warbikers over nobs as well, cheaper, and they zoom up first turn and take a lot of fire off the trukks/wagons/boys, and still shrug most of it off even without all the nobs extra stuff.

the idea of both is imply target saturation, and target denial, eitehr with #'s or blocking LOS with the wagon ,
there has to be soo many threats that will be in CC all at the same time that no matter what they shoot, there is another one after that, and other stuff that will hit at the same time.


just dont half arse it, my footsloggers list will be in CC in turn 3, I dont mix it with units that get into CC by turn 2(except bikers), and with the trukk/bike army that is all in CC turn 2, I dont take large units of boyz, maybe just some grots to stand on an objective in my zone.

Well the Battlewagons are not AV14 all around, and dont forget they are oppened top, even an AP2 weapon has a 50% chance on blowing it up on the first pen
With trukks, they are expendable past turn one, and with the ramshackle rule, getting blown up is never as devastating as a battlewagon blowing up

I agree with your thoughts on not mixing in different types of units
I was thinking of getting a squad of Grots or a smaller squad of shoota boyz (20) to hold an objective (probably grots, though for midground objectives a squad of 20 shooyaboyz should be theoretically great)

But the point stands of the army I am building is getting in there as fast as possible, flying across the board, and crumping the opponent, with the BikerNobz (or MANz) as a wreckingball/cleanup crew for stronger units and/or vehicles (this is why I am on a fence what option is better)

The Deffkoptas as singleman squads are great, they poke at squads/vehicles rly well, and they are a great throwaway unit for overwatch so da boyz can get in close and personal
The only reason I am bringing Lootas and Big Gunz to the table is to have some supporting fire for my advancing trukks, be it blowing up some vehicle/walker or poking down a tough squad

Footnobz are kinda pointless. Any of them with a PK actually costs more without any other upgrades than a MANz does. Yes the MANz cannot get cyborks or FNP without getting Grotsnik, but T4 models (least for me) seem to get pasted a LOT, so FNP wont really help lol.

Bikernobz are fething crazy, but they do kinda depend on luck. Rate of fire is what kills them and 4+/5++/FNP isnt THAT awesome, it just never goes away except in a very few situations. Ive had games where they just refused to die, and had games where they died turn 2 because i didnt pass a single save. Kinda irritates me that i feel like i have to depend on them against most lists.

MANz are awesome if you either have multiple missiles or you run a full wagon list. A single MANz missile wont do squat as it'll immediately get zapped - you gotta give them alternate targets either by bikernobz, other MANz missiles, or boys in trukks and wagons so they have to choose to thin the numbers, or deal with the big boys.

keep in mind with battle wagons that
1: you take 3 of them, or none, so if they manage to pop one, its no big deal,
2: yes, open topped means any pen has a decent chance to explode them, but the meta does not have many str9-10 ranged weapons right now, and when it does, its enough to pop one tank, not all three. str 8 weapons glance on a 6, and it has 4 HP's, its the 2nd most durable vehicle in the game, provided you play smart and dont expose the rear/sides.
3:half the reason they are there is to block LOS to the other wagons/trukks ect since they are such a huge model.

my vote goes to the bikes. I also will go for the squad of 9 bikes, but stay with 1 or 2 pk max, the rest 3 BS and the rest regular nobs. It will make the points of a painboy on bike and the waaaghbanner a better investment.
I use them all the time and i love em, expensive as hell but what a monsters. they survive almost everything (except lame ignore cover weapons), move fast, shoot hard, have an impact hit special rule and are really mean in CC

but on the other hand, 40 pts for a Meganob with a PK sounds like a bargain, but as said before, when the trukk is destroyed they're just too slow. those trukks are the bulletmagnets IMO, to keep the MANZ away

Thats the double edged bonus of the MANz that makes me not take them right now. They depend on wheels, and right now with the insane amount of anti cover their wheels will pop even with kff cover (since they probably wouldnt get the save anyway). Against stationary armies, not a big deal as the initial 24/25" movement on a Trukk is plenty to get them into charge range turn 2/3.

That supports list tailoring though. An all around list based on MANz will not work. Face a bike army or Tau those MANz are not going to do squat once the wheels pop. And incidentally i am against list tailoring. I dont ask what my opponent is running, and USUALLY it doesnt make that big of a problem (though ive had a couple games where i lost turn 2 because i literally had nothing going for me lol)

Maybe if in the new dex KFF gives a 5+ Invul, i'll start wagon listing again.

I will (for now) go with the Nob Bikers, since there has been alot of good feedback on them, and I already have 3 built. But I do look forward to getting some MANz, but Ill probably wait past the codex to upgrade my model count beyond 1500 points (maybe Ill proxy them in a friendly game untill then).
I thank you all for the feedback, you have all been very useful