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I've just been flicking through the IA: Apocalypse book, and I noticed the Chaos Spartan Assault Tank profile. Although it costs 285 points base, it's essentially a LR with +15 transport capacity, +2 twin-linked lascannons and +1 HP, for a points increase of just 55 (considering that a predator's LC sponsons normally cost 40 pts for no twin-linked power, that seems like a steal to me).

I can see this easily giving me a better option for Terminator transport.

So I was wondering, what are your opinions on this? Would you allow it's use in a normal game of 40k (The IA book says it is designed for that)? Would you consider it to be undercosted/overcosted?

It's much better than a regular LR, but a regular LR is garbage so that's not really saying very much. If you're willing to take a LR in your list you should probably upgrade it to a Spartan, but the Spartan doesn't really offer all that much if you don't have plans that need a LR. It's an expensive unit that locks you into playing a death star list, and most of the transport capacity is wasted since 25 models is massive overkill 99% of the time.

If it says 40k approved then yes. Otherwise, in casual/campaign games then yes. *Otherwise* again, from december onwards if the rumours are true.

 Peregrine wrote:
It's much better than a regular LR, but a regular LR is garbage so that's not really saying very much. If you're willing to take a LR in your list you should probably upgrade it to a Spartan, but the Spartan doesn't really offer all that much if you don't have plans that need a LR. It's an expensive unit that locks you into playing a death star list, and most of the transport capacity is wasted since 25 models is massive overkill 99% of the time.

I guess that depends on how one defines overkill really. I can see this being a solution to my everlasting Typhus problem (I like him with some tough choppy). When I DS him, he's often late or he scatters, and is rendered useless on the turn he arrives, when I walk him he gets either tarpitted or shot to oblivion, and when I use a standard LR, I'm paying 230 points that won't ever redeem itself.

I tend to get stuck facing either Orky armour spam, Ultrasmurf Predator/Razorback tag-teams or some mech IG. This kind of vehicle, I feel would make for a useful addition to my lists as it seems to be a more reliable way to get Typhus up the field, and take out some armour along the way.

The IA book says it's designed for standard WH40k, so I'd have no problem with my opponent fielding a Spartan. Actually, I considered buying one some time ago, but the model is simply too expensive Too bad, it'd fun to put a squad of Termies with a Chaos Lord and charge toward the enemy in this AV14 HP5 mobile bunker

Is it immune to melta and has PotMS?

It can take ceramite hull as an option, but there's no POTMS. What with it being chaos.

I'm fairly sure it can be demonically posessed so it can eat your own men though

Makumba wrote:
Is it immune to melta and has PotMS?

Sadly, no, but the sponsoons are designed to be mounted near the front of the LR, so nobody can complain about modelling for advantage (extra range, better LOS).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PredaKhaine wrote:
It can take ceramite hull as an option, but there's no POTMS. What with it being chaos.

I'm fairly sure it can be demonically posessed so it can eat your own men though

Ooh.. Ceramite upgrade

I need to read up on that part

Yes, it can take Daemonic Possession, but its cost is higher than in the CSM Codex.

its 285 with ceramite or without it ?

I think its something like a 20-25pt upgrade on the base cost.

PredaKhaine is correct.

The Chaos Spartan may also take some other Chaos Vehicle Upgrades from the CSM Codex, like Havoc Launcher or a Combi-Bolter, and those have their regular points cost.

 PredaKhaine wrote:
I think its something like a 20-25pt upgrade on the base cost.

20 pts. Bringing it to 305 pts.

auch . So a lord for 150+ and 200+ for a bodyguard unit and it clocks at around 650+pts. Better not play it against MCs or stuff that auto glances.

Makumba wrote:
auch . So a lord for 150+ and 200+ for a bodyguard unit and it clocks at around 650+pts. Better not play it against MCs or stuff that auto glances.

Well it's a good thing my opponents aren't CD, nids or Necrons

Although there are some Eldar allies starting to creep up...

Yep, together with an appropriate loadout the Chaos Spartan makes an excellent Death Star unit... but we all know how did the Death Star end up

If you've bought ceramite hull, you only really need to worry about wraith stuff from the eldar, you could almost ignore the rest of the army completely...

 PredaKhaine wrote:
If you've bought ceramite hull, you only really need to worry about wraith stuff from the eldar, you could almost ignore the rest of the army completely...

Except the Avatar of Khaine (I got caught by an unexpected allied detachment with that. I never saw it coming, it took out a good 1/3 of my points).

I always feel like I need more lascannons though, and this thing has LR shooty x2 pretty much, so the Avatar might not be too much of a worry with this tank.

 Selym wrote:

 PredaKhaine wrote:
If you've bought ceramite hull, you only really need to worry about wraith stuff from the eldar, you could almost ignore the rest of the army completely...

Except the Avatar of Khaine (I got caught by an unexpected allied detachment with that. I never saw it coming, it took out a good 1/3 of my points).

I always feel like I need more lascannons though, and this thing has LR shooty x2 pretty much, so the Avatar might not be too much of a worry with this tank.

Lol - the Avatar of Khaine =
He's only got a 12" range (unless you stick him on the icarus lascannon on an aegis)

So ok - look out for the Avatar in cc (his sword won't work cos've ceramite) and wraith units

 PredaKhaine wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 PredaKhaine wrote:
If you've bought ceramite hull, you only really need to worry about wraith stuff from the eldar, you could almost ignore the rest of the army completely...

Except the Avatar of Khaine (I got caught by an unexpected allied detachment with that. I never saw it coming, it took out a good 1/3 of my points).

I always feel like I need more lascannons though, and this thing has LR shooty x2 pretty much, so the Avatar might not be too much of a worry with this tank.

Lol - the Avatar of Khaine =
He's only got a 12" range (unless you stick him on the icarus lascannon on an aegis)

So ok - look out for the Avatar in cc (his sword won't work cos've ceramite) and wraith units

Seems legit

I have been talking about this versus the Chaos Storm Eagle in another thread and will be getting a both. The Spartan is great for 2,000 point games and I would use the Storm Eagle for lower-point games.

Honestly, something that can deliver a couple of assault units reliably would be a gamechanger for me. The problem with Land Raiders has always been the transport capacity - I can get a unit up the board, but then there's nobody there for back up. Being able to assault out of it with several units at a time means you could target a unit plus whatever is waiting to shoot you up after it's wiped out.

The 300 point hit is not that bad considering how many points get lost on Rhinos / Bikes / Spawn / Chosen / NMs that never make it into combat. I probably lose 1.5 times that amount per game just trying to make it up the board.

Just thinking about what could come out of this...

 techsoldaten wrote:
I have been talking about this versus the Chaos Storm Eagle in another thread and will be getting a both. The Spartan is great for 2,000 point games and I would use the Storm Eagle for lower-point games.

Honestly, something that can deliver a couple of assault units reliably would be a gamechanger for me. The problem with Land Raiders has always been the transport capacity - I can get a unit up the board, but then there's nobody there for back up. Being able to assault out of it with several units at a time means you could target a unit plus whatever is waiting to shoot you up after it's wiped out.

The 300 point hit is not that bad considering how many points get lost on Rhinos / Bikes / Spawn / Chosen / NMs that never make it into combat. I probably lose 1.5 times that amount per game just trying to make it up the board.

Just thinking about what could come out of this...

Typhus and 23 of any non-terminator model for a start

EDIT: Now I'm wondering what 23 Plague Marines looks like :3

20 bile enhanced MoS CSMs with IoE...

2 squads of 10 MoN Chosen with 5 flamers and 5 power weapons...

20 MoK Possessed with IoW hitting with 40+ attacks on the charge...

20 MOS Possessed - with demon allies ready to grimoire them the second they exit the tank
3++, Init 5 (iirc) and fnp...

Or 10 terminators Abaddon and Typhus and a sorceror in pa

Typhus can fit a zombie escort...
Abaddon can wreck shiz with impunity...
You can get everything you want onto a mid-field objective by turn 1...
You can scare the crap out of an entire flank by turn 1 (if you go second, and your opponent moved closer) or turn 2 (it should be easy to assault something by then)...

There's a complete review of FW vehicle options for CSMs at the following link:

http://www.thediceabide.com/2013/08/ia-apocalypse-review-of-the-40k-chaos-marine-units/

Relic predator with conversion beamer versus Tau.... Plague hulks... AV 13 Chaos contemptor... giant Chaos spawn...

I think my next choice may be the relic pred with the triple heavy plasma cannon...
And if they do a Night Lords contemptor.

I'd have gone for the Raptor over the Eagle but it didn't exists when I bought the Eagle and there's no way both will fit in me list...

 techsoldaten wrote:
There's a complete review of FW vehicle options for CSMs at the following link:

http://www.thediceabide.com/2013/08/ia-apocalypse-review-of-the-40k-chaos-marine-units/

Relic predator with conversion beamer versus Tau.... Plague hulks... AV 13 Chaos contemptor... giant Chaos spawn...

Intriguing...

That Giant Spawn makes me want one just so I can paint it up for Nurgle and call it "Flufffy" (Yes, the triple-f is intentional. Seven letters 'n all).

I have the regular Spartan Assault Tank, non Chaos. It will be containing a Black Templars Chaplain, a Sword Brother, 9 Initiates and 9 Neophytes. The perfect transport for a Templars Crusader Squad.

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
I have the regular Spartan Assault Tank, non Chaos. It will be containing a Black Templars Chaplain, a Sword Brother, 9 Initiates and 9 Neophytes. The perfect transport for a Templars Crusader Squad.

Good point... This could go rather interestingly for a pre-heresy force