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Hi guys, after reading alot of material and some consideration I came to realize that my last list wasn't very good.
This is my second try at an army list.

My tactics behind my list are the following:

- Get my CC unit's to the frontline while being shielded by heavy support
- Present mutliple threats that must be answered and thereby making my opponent use between two evils.


The list:

1 Captain 90 (150)
- Articer armor 20
- stormshield 10
- Thunderhammer 30

1 Crusader Squad 180
9 initiates 126
1 powersword 15
1 swordbrother 24
1 power sword 15

1 Stormraven transport 200 (230)
Hurricane bolters 30

1 Crusader Squad 162
5 Initates 70
2 Neophyes 22
1 Lascannon 20
1 Plasma gun 15
1 Rhino transport 35

1 Crusader Squad
5 Initates 70
1 Heavy Bolter 10


1 Assault Terminator Squad 200 (220)
4 Thunder Hammers / Storm Shields 20

1 Land Raider (normal) transport 250

1 Bike Squad 63 (103)
Grav gun 15
Melta gun 10
Power weapon 15

1 Vindicator 125

A note about some forum rules before a mod finds it; You'll need to take the points off everything except the total cost of the unit. Friendly reminder.

(EXAMPLE)
30 Ork Boyz, 1 is Nob with PK/BP, 3 Rokkit Launchas
250pts

This is the extent you can post point values I believe.

EDIT;

I don't play marines but my buddy is a big BT fan and he doesn't run his choppy termies all with TH/SS's. Perhaps two at the front to soak AP2 fire but you'll want some lightning claws (or maybe some fists? idk) to give that unit a clear role.

Maybe also, as a general rule, several might recommend you get your list moving at the same speed and of the same type of armor. Mixing a flier with a LR and then that bike with just one Vindi is considered inefficient by allowing you opponent's long ranged/fast shooty units to pick prime targets with their guns.

My advice is to make a competitive list. If your looking for a fluffy list, play what you want. It wont matter.
If you have already bought the models, some advice won't really apply. Don't despair if you did. Just play them and have fun.

Barnie25 wrote:
1 Captain 90 (150)
- Articer armor 20
- stormshield 10
- Thunderhammer 30

Why not go with a chapter master. When you shoot it, you will really know where those 30 points went.

Barnie25 wrote:
1 Crusader Squad 180
9 initiates 126
1 powersword 15
1 swordbrother 24
1 power sword 15

Keep em cheep. Powerswords are overkill here. Make sure your bringing some special weapons to take care of those special moments.

Barnie25 wrote:
1 Crusader Squad 162
5 Initates 70
2 Neophyes 22
1 Lascannon 20
1 Plasma gun 15
1 Rhino transport 35

Why have one squad on foot and one in a rhino. Either go mech, or go foot. A mix will not help you here I'm afraid.

Barnie25 wrote:
1 Crusader Squad
5 Initates 70
1 Heavy Bolter 10

Are these guys your back field objective campers (aka deck chair units). If so, stick the lascannon here.

Barnie25 wrote:
1 Assault Terminator Squad 200 (220)
4 Thunder Hammers / Storm Shields 20

These guys are just bad in today's meta.

Barnie2 wrote:
1 Land Raider (normal) transport 250

I'm guessing this is a transport for the terminators. While this vehicles is not bad per-say, its not the best choice in today's meta

Barnie25 wrote:
1 Bike Squad 63 (103)
Grav gun 15
Melta gun 10
Power weapon 15

Don't mix guns. Go with dual melta or dual grav. I suggest grav. Drop the power weapon

Barnie25 wrote:
1 Vindicator 125

Its garbage, drop it. Remember the ork motto -- boys before toys. That applies to BT as well.

Thanks for replying. I am not really going for fluff but also not trying to be the most competitive person there is for the moment as I'm just starting out. From being a competitive Magic player I've come to try and find the right setup as is with Magic, however since there are so many options and variables in 40k, finding the right balance is hard. As a newer player trying to fit this bill its not easy to find what makes a good list or what serves as a good basis.

I have taken your advice to heart and I've made some changes based upon your reaction. I've dropped the vinidcator in favor of a escort flyer in a Stormtalon Gunship with a Skyspear Missle. But I've also got some questions. Why are the terminators bad in today's meta and what units should I bring? I probably want a list that includes the stormraven and the stormtalon. I probably also want to field the Landraider at least for the time being. Ultimately I want to build up to a tuned and good list but as my funds are not unlimited at the moment I would probably want to field those as I've already purchased them.

The list would be like this then:

1 Chapter Master 250
- Articer armor
- Storm Shield
- Burning Blade
- Bike

1 Command Bike Squad 210
- Bikes
- Apothecary
-4 Grav guns

Crusader Squad 1 150
9 Initiates CCW BP
1 Swordbrother
1 Land Raider (normal) transport 260
MM

Crusader Squad 2 155
10 Initiates
1 Flamer
1 Multi Melta
1 Rhino Transport 35

Crusader Squad 3 114
6 Initiates
1 Neophyte
1 LC

1 Stormtalon Gunship 125
Skyhammer Missle launcher

1 Stormraven Transport 201
Searchlight
TL MM TL LC
1500

Edit: Updated list.

This is a second option:

1 Chapter Master 250
- Articer armor
- Storm Shield
- Burning Blade
- Bike

1 Command Bike Squad 210
- Bikes
- Apothecary
-4 Grav guns

Crusader Squad 1 170
8 Initiates CCW BP
1 Flamer
1 Stormbrother
1 Power Weapon
1 Stormraven Transport

Crusader Squad 2 100
5 Initiates
1 Melta gun
1 Lascannon

Crusader Squad 3 95
5 Initiates
1 Melta gun
1 Plasma Cannon

1 Assault Terminator Squad 215 (Deep Strike with Stormraven)
3 TH/SS

1 Stormtalon Gunship 125
Skyhammer Missle launcher

1 Stormtalon Gunship 125
Skyhammer Missle launcher

1 Stormraven Transport 210
Locator Beacon
TL MM TL LC
1500

Can you write up a quick list of what models you have available? I'll be happy to try and write up a 'maximized effectiness' list out of it with as little invested $$$ as possible.

I play against my friends BT all the time, being a BT player myself (i helped him build his force too) and he runs somethign similar to what you are intending to run.

But before i advice you i'd like to know if you will be buying models?

Or if you have a current inventory to work with, what's in it?

As the other guy mentioned before me, its easier to advice you if we know what you're working with.

My current force is this:

1 Land Raider
1 Rhino
1 Stormraven Gunship
1 Stormtalon Gunship

1 Dreadnought
-Twin-linked lascannons
-Missle pods
-Heavy Bolter
-Powerfist w/ Heavy Flamer

5 Assault Marines

10 Tactical Marines w/ arms (chapter update incoming for the CCW's)

1 Marine w/ Lascannon
1 Marine w/ Plasmacannon
1 Marine w/ Missle Launcher
1 Marine w/ Heavy Bolter

1 Marine w/ Flamer
1 Marine w/ Meltagun

2 Marines w/CCW's
1 Marine w/Powerfist Plasma pistol
10 Normal Marines

2 Scouts bolter
1 Scout pistol CCW
1 Scout HB

3 Ravenwing Bikes (will be BT)
3 Command Squad BIkes (same as the other bikes)

5 Assault Terminators
1 Terminator Captain Lightning Claws
1 Chaplain, jumppack

For weapons I can order bits or convert pistols into guns or pistols into combi weapons.

If you want mobile BT try this

1500 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster

HQ:
1 Chapter Master, 260 pts (Artificer Armour; Thunder Hammer x1; Auspex; Melta Bombs; Space Marine Bike)
1 The Shield Eternal

4 Command Squad, 210 pts (Equip with Space Marine Bikes; Grav-gun x4)
1 Apothecary (Space Marine Bike)

Troops:
9 Crusader Squad, 225 pts (Meltagun; Power Axe)
1 Sword Brother (Boltgun; Power Sword)
1 Rhino (Storm Bolter)

9 Crusader Squad, 225 pts (Meltagun; Power Axe)
1 Sword Brother (Boltgun; Power Sword)
1 Rhino (Storm Bolter)

9 Crusader Squad, 225 pts (Meltagun; Power Axe)
1 Sword Brother (Boltgun; Power Sword)
1 Rhino (Storm Bolter)

Fast Attack:
1 Stormtalon Gunship, 125 pts (Skyhammer Missile Launcher)

Heavy Support:
1 Stormraven Gunship, 230 pts (Hurricane Bolters (each side))

Total Roster Cost: 1500

I have more then what I posted, had to change workspaces, I will continue on.

if you want to footslog and use that land raider, while still being very fluffy and effective you can try this

1500 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster

HQ:
1 Chapter Master, 220 pts (Bolt Pistol; Storm Shield; Artificer Armour; Warlord)
1 The Burning Blade

Troops:
9 Crusader Squad, 240 pts (Meltagun; Power Axe)
5 Neophytes (Chainsword x5)
1 Sword Brother (Boltgun; Power Sword)

9 Crusader Squad, 250 pts (Meltagun; Power Axe)
6 Neophytes (Chainsword x6)
1 Sword Brother (Boltgun; Power Sword)

9 Crusader Squad, 250 pts (Meltagun; Power Axe)
6 Neophytes (Chainsword x6)
1 Sword Brother (Boltgun; Power Sword)

Fast Attack:
1 Stormtalon Gunship, 145 pts (Typhoon Missile Launcher)
1 Stormtalon Gunship, 145 pts (Typhoon Missile Launcher)

Heavy Support:
1 Land Raider Crusader, 250 pts

Total Roster Cost: 1500

I'm more gearing towards the first lists, I like that better. How does a CC Terminator squad fit into that list as I proposed, it gives you another deathstar unit to kick ass with or how does that list deal with Termi's and genstealers and such?

Most deathstars can be dealt with by grav guns on bikes. And the chapter master kitted out the way i suggested is a total beast, i built one myself and built a second one and gave it to my friend for free just to improve his competitiveness against me.

You don't need CC terminators, they are good but not a 'must' have.

If you bump the list up to 2,000 pts then you could add those hammernators and your land raider and call it a day.

For the record thunderhammer + shield terminators are not a 'deathstar' they are a very standard unit of 40k.

Ok thanks buddy, this really helps, I like to be competitive but also want to be able to mix it up a bit. I bought a box of stoff from a buddy of mine as I wanted to get started again. So I have about 30 catachans with some heavy wepons and 2 heavy weapons teams with a lascannon, a chimera and a Leman Russ Demolisher at home as well. I bought a lord commisar for if I wanted to do a ally run. This probably gives me enough tools to work with for the time being.

As for the Land Raider, I glued the TL LC on them, is it still possible to run it as a crusader instead of a normal one, maybe via some conversions or is that out of the question?

HQ
235 - Chapter Master w/PF + Shield of Eternal + Bike + Artificer Armor

Elite
125 - Dreadnought w/TL LC + ML

Fast Attack
125 - Stormtalon w/Skyhammer

Troops
165 - 10 TACs w/LC + MG
155 - 10 TACs w/ML + Flamer
135 - 5 Bikes (will be BT) w/2 grav

Heavy Support
230 - Stormraven w/Hurricane Bolters, TL MM, TL AC
250 - Land Raider

Conversions to make it work
Convert a command squad bike to be your chapter master. You will want to give him a fist/hammer and a shield. Cannabalize from a TH/SS terminator if required.

You have enough to make 2 squads of 8 marines each. Proxy in some extra CCW guys until you can get bolters.
Use the ones with CCWs as your sergeants.
10 Normal Marines
1 Marine w/ Lascannon
1 Marine w/ Missle Launcher
1 Marine w/ Flamer
1 Marine w/ Meltagun
2 Marines w/CCW's
Take 5 of your bikes and make them a normal bike squad. You want to go with 2 grav guns on them.

Take your Rhino and turn it into a whirlwind. You had 65 points floating, and a WW is a great investment for 65 pts.

Strategy
Start with one TAC squad in your land raider. Use that as its transport.
Start the other TAC squad in your storm raven. Drop it down as your flying around.
Start with your CM and bikes hidden behind the land raider or off the board (use it as mobile cover on turn 1)
Start with your dread either in ruins or in the stormraven. It can shoot the turn it disembarks from the raven.

Your bikes are your hammer unit. Keep the CM in front to tank a few wounds. That does not mean "shove them down your opponents throat" but if something like a wraithknight comes your way, you can engage it with that guy.

Push up with your LR 6" a turn, shooting both LCs. When your about 20" away, drop off the marines inside and shoot bolters. If a squad is whittled down to only 1 or 2 marines left, hop them into the LR until turn 5, when they will be objective holders. Use the LR as mobile cover when needed to block LoS.

Your other TAC squad is to also hold objectives mid board. Drop it fairly close to the LR so it can also hide in it or behind it when needed.

Shoot at infantry with the whirlwind. It has barrage, so its a happy thing.

Your raven and talon are general multipurpose tools and will do the heavy lifting for damage for your squads.

Where do we go from Here?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/561197.page#6212676

Edit :
I forgot you wanted to run BT. You can take the squads and make them crusader squads if you want. You can make the one flying in from the storm raven bigger. Just play around with the points.
Right now though, I would run them as another chapter until you get the models to do a BT army. Just run the rules as you please but keep the colors of BT. Iron hands comes to mind as good. Ultramarines lets you take tiggy. Bolter drill would be pretty cool, etc...
My goal here was to keep your cost as close to 0 as possible.

Thanks for the reply, I've already read your view on the new SM codex, It are things like those that are really helpful. The proposed conversion for the BIker Marshall was indeed what I had in mind.

Which of these lists are 'better' or is it just different. The list you proposed is comprised off almost all stuff that I already posess which ofcourse is a big plus.

How can I convert the Rhino into a Whirlwind, There probably aren't update sprue's for that or are there? Thats the only thing right now.

Alternatively I could field a Predator as this list is 1420 points.



As it stands I have enough bolters guys to field this setup without having to proxy which is nice. And I even have 5 extra points to spend, is it whice to spend this on extra armour for anyone of my transports, if so which one?

Edit: I see that I've miss calculated and actually are 5 points over I've I take a Predator, I could replace 2 marine's with 2 Neophyte netting me 8 points, bringing my total to 1497

 Barnie25 wrote:
How can I convert the Rhino into a Whirlwind, There probably aren't update sprue's for that or are there? Thats the only thing right now.

You could take the missiles from your storm talon kit and use those.

You could ask a friend who plays guard for the missiles that were not put onto his vendetta. (the kit comes to make a valkarie, which no one takes)

Or you could go to a bits vendor on ebay and look.