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So, I'm a rookie CSM player slightly obsessed with the Emperor's Children Traitor Legion... Ahem, I've been thinking a lot about creating a semi-competitive list to have fun when playing with both my gaming friends and at a FLGS. I want it to be somewhat fluffy and fabulous whilst at the same time not being an utter pushover. Here's the list:

HQ:
1 Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour, 170 pts (MoS, the Black Mace, VotLW)

Troops:
10x Noise Marines, 265 pts (8 sonic blasters, 1 blastmaster, plasma pistol and power sword on the Champion)
10x Noise Marines, 275 pts (7 sonic blasters, 2 blastmasters, power sword on the Champion)
10x Noise Marines, 250 pts (additional CCW, Icon of Excess, LC and Doom Siren on the Champion, optional VotLW for +10 pts)

Dedicated Transport:
2x Chaos Rhino, 2x52 pts (Dozer Blade, Havoc Launcher)

Fast Attack:
5x Chaos Raptors, 165 pts (2x plasma pistol, MoS, plasma pistol and LC on the Champion, optional VotLW for +10 pts)

Elites:
8x Chaos Terminators, 340 pts (Reaper Autocannon, 2x combi-melta, 5x power fist, 1 chainfist, LC on the Champion)

Heavy Support:
1 Chaos Predator, 140 pts (Lascannon sponsons, TL Lascannon)
1 Chaos Vindicator, 135 pts (Siege Shield, Combi-Bolter)

This clocks at about 1840 pts.

My general idea of this army is that:
- NMs with sonic weapons enter Rhinos and then take objectives with their fire support;
- the CCW NM squad takes care of infantry units and moves on its own, optionally joined by the Terminator Chaos Lord;
- Raptors troll infantry squads or jump at light vehicles with their plasma pistols;
- Termies make the opponent piss their pants as they advance onward, Deep Strike and destroy artillery units, engage MCs etc;
- Chaos Predator serves anti-tank purposes;
- Vindicator wipes any infantry units from the table.

This list contains only units that I find appealing, which is of more concern to me than combat efficiency, and takes into account my financial capacity. Critique, suggestions, and general feedback about the expected effectiveness of this list are greatly appreciated. Advice to take Heldrakes and/or MoN are a no-no.

The aim of this list is to be semi-competitive.

I personally wouldn't mix the sonic blasters and blast masters in the same squad.

I would go all sonic blasters in rhinos and blastmaster in a 5 man squad (or 6 for fluff) with bolters on the rest.

The Black Mace IMO is best on Daemon Prince for the AP2 (especially if you play a lot of Marines). Maybe lightning claws instead?

For the Noise Marine Champ in the third squad, I would take 2 lightning claws for the extra attack if you can find the points.

Finally, no Mark of Slaanesh on the Terminators? What heresy is this?

Perhaps take less fists (2-3 instead of 6) and load up on lightning claws, power mauls and the mark?

Although I guess if you are going last due to cover and no grenades the fists would make more sense. That shouldn't always be the case though.

Splitting the NMs into teams of six seems a viable idea. I will consider this. However, could you explain why is it better to take blastmasters with bolters? I thought that pairing them with sonic blasters creates powerful anti-infantry gun lines; when paired with bolters, they'd be forced to use the Varied Frequency setting, since the bolter team(s) is supposed to move a lot.

Adding another LC for the Noise Champ with Doom Siren is also a fine idea, I probably would be able to find the points for this.

The amount of fists in the Terminator team is due to my relative lack of AP2 and the fact I like fists Still, mixing them with a pair or two of LCs would not be bad, that's also for consideration.

After some consideration, I've come up with two optional ways to organise my Troops:

1. 782 pts
6x Noise Marines, 142 pts (5x sonic blasters, plasma pistol and power sword on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 142 pts (5x sonic blasters, plasma pistol and power sword on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 142 pts (5x sonic blasters, plasma pistol and power sword on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 178 pts (CCW, blastmaster, lightning claw and doom siren on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 178 pts (CCW, blastmaster, lightning claw and doom siren on Champion)

2. 803 pts
6x Noise Marines, 169 pts (4x sonic blasters, blastmaster, power sword on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 169 pts (4x sonic blasters, blastmaster, power sword on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 169 pts (4x sonic blasters, blastmaster, power sword on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 148 pts (CCW, lightning claw and doom siren on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 148 pts (CCW, lightning claw and doom siren on Champion)

Option 2 would be better considering my plans for the NMs, but what are your opinions? Which of those combinations would be the more effective in general?

I'm just going to say that the blastmaster has multiple profiles and I am entirely fine with mixing them myself. Sorcerer's are the NM's best friend. Symphony of pain and endurance are the main powers you want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and you want deamonic possesion on that vindicator

I like to run a large unit of NMs with Sonic Blasters only with the Icon, they are a good up field objective holding unit, especially with the Icon hidden in the squad.

I usually kit my Champions out with Doom Siren and Power Sword.. the Sirens are devastating.

I use Blastmasters in 6 man squads in rhinos, usually 2 or 3 in tandem working together, each unit has a PW/DS champ, CCWs (your BM marine can take advantage of the BP/CCW as well) As they move, the BMs can fire out of the Rhinos to do some damage, and if they find a place to camp they can utilize the ap 3 blast to good effect. I like to run them close together in order to support each other in assault situations. 2 doom sirens jumping out of rhinos can clear and objective being held by anything other than Terminators.

I love vindicators, I would add another one, dropping the pred. I find the Vindys more versatile than a Laz Pred.. certainly better anti horde/infantry, and if need be it can be a pretty reliable anti tank weapon. With possession they are terrifying to see across the table.

I rail endlessly against the Black Mace on anything but a DP. The AP4 ruins it. I would go LC/PF for diversity, benefit of both plus the extra attack. I like the termies, but mark them up and get them an icon if you are going to run 8 of them. It's worth it. As for putting Icons in Noise Marine units, I tend to only give them Icons if they are 10 strong or more.

I'd like to see the lord go with the Termies all the time. Invest in a lvl 3 sorcerer to join a large (12-15) man unit of NMs with sonic blasters and the icon, and run the rest of your NMs in rhinos with blastmasters, find a nice place to park and blast away. The rhino squads are going to be low priority, especially if you can get Endurance and Symphony of Pain on the sorc as was mentioned above. If you intend to play this army in a competitive setting its going to need either a Drake or an ADL with a Quadgun.

One last thing - I hate raptors, I only ever run them in my Khorne army with the Icon of Wrath in a big unit with a JP lord. Its the only use for them in the book really IMO.

Something you might want to consider:

As per the faq, you can take 2 blastmasters in a 10 man NM squad. Put that squad in a rhino mid/back field, have the blastmasters fire out the hatch. It's like .... "Surprise! This is practically an additional tank!" It really catches a lot of opponents off-guard. 2x 48" Str8 Ap3 Ignore Cover, Pinning blasts is not to be taken too lightly

I'll consider the PF/LC combo on the Terminator Lord. Given the way I've glued his current arms it would be difficult to swap them, but I might do that.

Seems the opinions on the NMs are varied... At first I've been leaning toward the larger, 10-men squads, but the 6-men variant also appears good at has its benefits. I think I prefer the 5x6 approach at the moment.

I know Raptors aren't optimal, but I really like them. Also, they'd provide me with the fancy LCs for my Noise Champions.

The problem with the Terminators is that given their equipment, MoS would be useless, and MoN not very fluffy. Giving them VotLW may be a decent idea, but it wouldn't matter much if they were following the Terminator Lord.

I've already assembled and painted the models for Predator and Vindicator, so for this reason I won't swap any of them. However, dropping one from the list depending on the opponent could free a lot of points to upgrade or take something else, like an ADL with a Quad Cannon, for instance. Also, I've heard about the Daemonic Possession on Vindicator, but so far there wasn't a single instance where it would be useful (in only about 10 games, though).

I end up with this:

HQ:
1 Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour, 153 pts (MoS, PF, LC, VotLW)

Troops: 737 pts
6x Noise Marines, 127 pts (5x sonic blasters, Power Sword on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 127 pts (5x sonic blasters, Power Sword on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 127 pts (5x sonic blasters, Power Sword on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 178 pts (CCW, blastmaster, Lightning Claw and Doom Siren on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 178 pts (CCW, blastmaster, Lightning Claw and Doom Siren on Champion)

Dedicated Transport: 104 pts
2x Chaos Rhino, 2x52 pts (Dozer Blade, Havoc Launcher)

Fast Attack:
5x Chaos Raptors, 175 pts (2x Plasma Pistol, MoS, Plasma Pistol and LC on the Champion, VotLW)

Elites:
8x Chaos Terminators, 339 pts (Reaper Autocannon, Combi-melta, 5x Power Fist, 1 Chainfist, LC and Combi-melta on the Champion)

Heavy Support: 275 pts
1 Chaos Predator, 140 pts (Lascannon sponsons, TL Lascannon)
1 Chaos Vindicator, 135 pts (Siege Shield, Combi-Bolter)

This clocks at 1783 pts.

Could give Doom Sirens to all of the Noise Champions to use up some of the remaining points. Perhaps add CCW to the squads with Sonic Blasters, too. What do you think?

I woud switch the black mace on your lord out with the Burning Brand instead, because.. well its a fraking burning brand, thats why .

I'm surprised deamonic possession never played a role. Usually comes into play so for a damage table effect to actually happen the opposing play always roll a 4+. If its less then 4 the vindicator can't fire its main weapon due to being ordinance (without deamonic possession).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd keep your lord the way he is in the newest list, If you ran him with SoC (w/out terminator armor) in a unit of NM I would have to agree with Redcruisair to change out the PF for a BBoS

Well, my Vindicator either survived entire game without damage, or was popped in one turn by an MC or Deathwing Terminators... The issue may appear when I begin playing regularly with a wider community than my 3 friends (Tyranids, Dark Angels and Necron).

I appreciate the advice on the Chaos Lord, but I'd like to keep him the way he is due to coolness factor. The only problem I have right now is to fill those 67 pts left, which I may as well spend on some upgrades to the units that are already in the list, like the aforementioned Daemonic Possession.

I'd give the terminators the icon of excess, then join your terminator lord to the squad (give him a sigil of corruption) for 2+ Armour Saves, 4+ Invuns, AND feel no pain 5+. That would be a mass of almost unstoppable death

 believablejeff wrote:
I'd give the terminators the icon of excess, then join your terminator lord to the squad (give him a sigil of corruption) for 2+ Armour Saves, 4+ Invuns, AND feel no pain 5+. That would be a mass of almost unstoppable death

This, I like this. But you'll be spending 7 points for FNP per model since the MoS will be useless on most the terminators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd spend 7 points for FNP for an already 40+ point model

I love the Terminator idea! I obviously wanted them to be my "Death Squad", and in such a configuration I can imagine my opponent's terror when forced to confront them

As it is, the upgrades would increase the point value of my army to 1880. However, after dropping VotLW from the Terminator Lord and Raptors, and taking two PW instead of PF on the Terminators, I'd be back at 1851.

My future army is looking so much better now.

 SarisKhan wrote:
I love the Terminator idea! I obviously wanted them to be my "Death Squad", and in such a configuration I can imagine my opponent's terror when forced to confront them

As it is, the upgrades would increase the point value of my army to 1880. However, after dropping VotLW from the Terminator Lord and Raptors, and taking two PW instead of PF on the Terminators, I'd be back at 1851.

My future army is looking so much better now.

Wise choice, Now the PW terminators will be attacking at an even higher initiative too instead of I1! win-win

I like the overall make up of the list. The one thing that stands out to me is the Plasma Pistols on the Raptors. Melta Guns are 5 points cheaper, have the same range, better AP and Strength and can be fired before assaulting. Pretty much the reason no one takes Plasma Pistols on Raptors that often.

 SkinCarver wrote:
I like the overall make up of the list. The one thing that stands out to me is the Plasma Pistols on the Raptors. Melta Guns are 5 points cheaper, have the same range, better AP and Strength and can be fired before assaulting. Pretty much the reason no one takes Plasma Pistols on Raptors that often.

Because of the wording I thought that they could take only one meltagun, but now that I've re-read the description I assume they can take two, right? If that's true, then yes, it would have a lot of advantages, and the only disadvantage would be the loss of +1 attack in assault. Gotta think about this, but I already can say it looks like a viable idea.

My army list version 1.2:

HQ:
1 Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour, 183 pts (MoS, PF, LC, Sigil of Corruption, VotLW)

Troops: 735 pts
6x Noise Marines, 127 pts (5x sonic blasters)
6x Noise Marines, 127 pts (5x sonic blasters)
6x Noise Marines, 127 pts (5x sonic blasters)
6x Noise Marines, 177 pts (CCW, blastmaster, Lightning Claw and Doom Siren on Champion)
6x Noise Marines, 177 pts (CCW, blastmaster, Lightning Claw and Doom Siren on Champion)

Dedicated Transport: 104 pts
2x Chaos Rhino, 2x52 pts (Dozer Blade, Havoc Launcher)

Fast Attack:
5x Chaos Raptors, 155 pts (2x Meltagun, MoS, Plasma Pistol and LC on the Champion)

Elites:
8x Chaos Terminators, 397 pts (Reaper Autocannon, Combi-melta, 3x Power Fist, 1 Chainfist, LC and Combi-melta on the Champion, MoS, Icon of Excess)

Heavy Support: 275 pts
1 Chaos Predator, 140 pts (Lascannon sponsons, TL Lascannon)
1 Chaos Vindicator, 135 pts (Siege Shield, Combi-Bolter)

This clocks at 1849 pts.

Had to correct some miscalculations, but it turned out great in the end. I'm very satisfied with this list, and I've already assembled my brand new squad of Terminators accordingly.

 rohansoldier wrote:


Maybe lightning claws instead?

For the Noise Marine Champ in the third squad, I would take 2 lightning claws for the extra attack if you can find the points.

Perhaps take less fists (2-3 instead of 6) and load up on lightning claws, power mauls and the mark?

Although I guess if you are going last due to cover and no grenades the fists would make more sense. That shouldn't always be the case though.

Okay, I see you bashing fists (lol) and I'm going to raise you the 6th edition "mixnmatch special" shenanigans

Say you have a Chaos Champion. His name is Ted.
Ted comes stock with bolt pistol and chainsword but you want him to rip and tear and bloOD FOR THE BLOO ahem... Enjoy his time on the battlefield more.
Now, being Chaos Space Marines with lots of nifty upgrade options, you have the option of swapping Ted's bolt pistol for a Lightning Claw, all the better to shred my loyalist pansy friends my dear, and replacing Ted's Chainsword with a powerfist all the better for smashing tanks and those silly Termy fellows
You may ask, why would I want Ted to have such funny looking off balanced hands? Ah, that my friend is the beauty of it. As per 6th edition, these are both "specialist" weapons, thereby the virtue of him owning them, has +1A and now in ANY assault phase, yours or your opponent's, Ted (and you) can now CHOOSE which weapon to make all of Ted's attacks with. Which means on your turn, Ted can be reaping heads with all his attacks, the Shred special rule, regular initiative step, STR: User and AP3, and on your opponent's turn, Ted can crump some poor souls with all his attacks, STRx2, AP2 and the last initiative step of the combat. The loyalists, terminator armored or not , are dead, Khor- Er I mean Slaanesh is pleased, Ted is happy, and you are happy, all for a measly 40pts. The only downside is you can't use different profiles for a certain number of attacks in each phase, you choose one profile and you get that on all Ted's attacks, until your opponent's turn, then you can pick the same or different, and then change again on your turn and so on and so forth. With all this changing, even Tzeentch might be pleased.

I've come to respect the PF/LC combo, but sadly, I've no points remaining to give them to Ted... However, Mardok the Lord of Pain is more than happy to wield a pair