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Hello Dakka.

After much deliberation I've decided to go Eldar for my second army (normally I play Tau). I decided on Eldar because I can ally it with my Tau force, they have great psykers, and I love the mobility they provide. With my Tau I went on a mad buying spree (up to 7000 points now) with no real direction so with this army I decided my bank account would suffer less if I had a plan before I started purchasing. To that end I drafted up a 3000pt list and I would very much like your thoughts on it and what I should change/add/remove. I've been reading the codex but until I actually play a few games I won't be able to get a full grasp of how to play them properly so input there would also be appreciated thanks in advance

* Warlocks (160pts) (Codex: Eldar (2013) p29)
(--Must Be Primary Detachment--, Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Psychic Discipline: Runes of Battle, Psyker (Mastery Level 1), Rune Armor)
* Warlock (40pts)
Singing spear (5pts)
* Warlock (40pts)
Singing spear (5pts)
* Warlock (40pts)
Singing spear (5pts)
* Warlock (40pts)
Singing spear (5pts)


+ HQ + (100pts)

* Farseer (100pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Ghosthelm, Independent Character, Psychic Disciplines: Divination, Runes of Fate, Telepathy, Psyker (Mastery Level 3), Rune Armour)
Witchblade


+ Elites + (485pts)

* Howling Banshees (295pts)
(Acrobatic, Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet)
10x Howling Banshee (150pts)
* Wave Serpent (145pts)
Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Serpent Field, Shuriken cannon (10pts), Twin-linked scatter lasers (5pts)


* Striking Scorpions (190pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Infiltrate, Mandiblasters, Move Through Cover, Stealth)
* Exarch (20pts)
Monster Hunter (5pts) (*), Shuriken Pistol and Biting Blade (5pts)
* 10x Striking Scorpion (170pts)
10x Scorpion Chainsword, 10x Shuriken pistol


+ Troops + (1133pts)

* Dire Avengers (290pts) (Codex: Eldar (2013) p31)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Counter-attack, Fleet)
10x Dire Avenger (130pts)
* Exarch (15pts)
Twin-Linked Avenger Shuriken Catapult (5pts)
* Wave Serpent (145pts)
Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Serpent Field, Shuriken cannon (10pts), Twin-linked brightlances (5pts)


* Dire Avengers (290pts) (Codex: Eldar (2013) p31)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Counter-attack, Fleet)
10x Dire Avenger (130pts)
* Exarch (15pts)
Twin-Linked Avenger Shuriken Catapult (5pts)
* Wave Serpent (145pts)
Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Serpent Field, Shuriken cannon (10pts), Twin-linked brightlances (5pts)


* Guardian Defenders (180pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet)
20x Guardian (180pts)


* Guardian Defenders (253pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet)
12x Guardian (108pts)
* Wave Serpent (145pts)
Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Serpent Field, Shuriken cannon (10pts), Twin-linked brightlances (5pts)


* Rangers (120pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Stealth)
10x Ranger (120pts)


+ Fast Attack + (499pts)

* Crimson Hunter (160pts)
(Skyhunter, Vector Dancer)
Pulse Laser, Two Bright Lances


* Crimson Hunter (160pts)
(Skyhunter, Vector Dancer)
Pulse Laser, Two Bright Lances


* Swooping Hawks (179pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Herald of Victory, Skyleap, Swooping Hawk Wings)
9x Swooping Hawk (144pts)
* Exarch (35pts)
Hawk's talon (10pts), Hit & Run (15pts) (*)


+ Heavy Support + (440pts)

* Falcon (160pts)
Brightlance (10pts), Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Pulse Laser, Shuriken cannon (10pts)


* Wraithknight (280pts)
(Ancient Doom, Fearless)
2x Starcannon (40pts), Two Heavy Wraithcannons

ADL with quad-gun

I wouldn't take a falcon as heavy support. Its a troop carrier/gunship/confused not as good as wave serpent or fire prism tank...

There's no point taking 4 guns on a wraithknight, it can only fire two. Drop the starcannons

I wouldn't use howling Banshees - they sound great but using them is like trying to carve steak with a butter knife. Its possible, but you'll take forever to get them to do what you want when you could already be eating pudding.
Banshees can't charge out of a tank, so you'd have to drop them off, wait a turn, then charge. Banshees don't survive out of a transport (T3 and 4+...)

I'd drop the banshees and take 5 fire dragons instead in that Wave serpent - then you get to fly over and ruin something.

Then I'd drop the falcon and bring a second wraithknight - 1 will get shot down, 2 is nasty.

Are you open to forgeworld? Nightwings work better than crimson hunters - they get a 2+ evade so even though they have less HP, they live longer.

Swooping hawks are good, so are Warp Spiders. Have you considered Spiders? they're stupidly fast...but they both decent units so thats a matter of choice.

With the aegis, I prefer the lascannon with a dark reaper exarch on it. A BS5 lascannon shot that ignores jink is good

What are you aiming for?

Suggestiosn on what to add/change/remove are easier if you tell us if you have a specific goal in mind.

Are you aiming for tournament style (max efficiency) play? Or you just want a theme? or just diversity ?

I think you have a nice fun eldar list going. I honestly think you should go lax on buying so much stuff from the get-go

Also it would greatly help if you listed your tau inventory in order to recommend things that compliment your tau list. One important question anyone would want to know is how many riptides do you own/play?

Also you don't need to list every unit's special rules and standard wargear options. Anyone replying to this thread should have the eldar codex before offering you advice or at least be pretty familiar with it.

It makes it much easier to analyze your units without all the extra stuff

Well, I'd start with the core (troop) units:

5 to 10 Dire Avengers in Serpents
10 Guardians in Serpents
small Windrider Jetbike units.

Then I'd add the HQs:
Jetseer
Autarch on jetbike
later: Jetseer Council.

Eldar HS is usually maxed out:
3 to 6 Warwalkers w/ scatterlasers
Wraithknight

Then onto Eldar elite:
2x 5 Fire Dragons in Serpents,
personal preference here. Iyanden models are not good enough for my liking.

Sorry about the rules; I pasted it from battlescribe. I'll cut the extras out next time.

I don't plan on buying all of it at once but I want a 3000 point list at the minimum so if I can get what I need sorted out now then I can still buy it piecemeal but I have a path to follow so it cuts down on spending money on stuff I won't use.

Ultimately I'd like to be able to do tournaments with the list but 99% of my games are just for fun or heads so it doesn't need to be hardcore. I'm also ooen to forgeworld models .

Theme wise I'm not completely sure how I want to go I thought about doing a bike list but think marine bikes look cooler so I'll save that for them. I also keep seeing mention of a foot-dar list and a mech-dar list but not 100% sure what either would look like. I also considered a melee heavy list but I'd like to win occasionally lol. I really like the Ranger models so at the very least I'd like to keep at least 1 squad of those. I for sure know I don't want to play a serpent spam list as I think it would be boring and would feel a lot like cheating lol.

As for a list of my Tau models...

2x ethereal
2x cadre fireblade
1x farsight
1x commander
1x darkstrider


3x riptide
21x crisis suits
12x stealth suits

86x fire warriors
22x kroot
8x kroot hounds
2x devilfish

30x pathfinders
2x Piranhas
1x sun shark

2x broadsides
3x hammerhead/skyray

24x gundrones
10x marker drones
5x shield drones

1x Aegis defense line
1x quad gun

so as you can see I can run just about any tau list I want.

lol your tau seem like they went straight for tournament play with what you have there.

Here's 3,000 pts of eldar that can work well with what you own of Tau.

3000 Pts - Codex: Eldar Roster - Eldar

HQ:
1 Farseer, 100 pts (Warlord)

1 Farseer, 100 pts

1 Warlock Council, 70 pts
1 Warlock
1 Warlock

Elite:
5 Fire Dragons, 255 pts
1 Wave Serpent (TL Scatter Lasers; Shuriken Cannon; Holo-Fields)

Troops:
10 Rangers, 120 pts

20 Guardian Defenders, 210 pts
2 Heavy Weapon Platform

20 Guardian Defenders, 210 pts
2 Heavy Weapon Platform

9 Dire Avengers, 290 pts
1 Dire Avenger Exarch (TL Avenger Shuriken Catapult)
1 Wave Serpent (TL Scatter Lasers; Shuriken Cannon; Holo-Fields)

9 Dire Avengers, 290 pts
1 Dire Avenger Exarch (TL Avenger Shuriken Catapult)
1 Wave Serpent (TL Scatter Lasers; Shuriken Cannon; Holo-Fields)

9 Dire Avengers, 290 pts
1 Dire Avenger Exarch (TL Avenger Shuriken Catapult)
1 Wave Serpent (TL Scatter Lasers; Shuriken Cannon; Holo-Fields)

Heavy Support:
5 Dark Reapers, 245 pts (Reaper Launcher (Starshot)
1 Dark Reaper Exarch (Night Vision; Fast Shot)

1 Fire Prism, 125 pts

1 Fire Prism, 125 pts

1 Wraithknight, 240 pts

1 Wraithknight, 240 pts

Fortifications:
1 Aegis Defence Lines, 85 pts
1 Gun Emplacement (Icarus Lascannon)

Total Roster Cost: 2995

Should be fairly easy to mix and match allies as well as be able to run 2,000 pts of Eldar in different flavors, from footdar, to mechdar whatever you like is playable (except for Iyanden type lists)

Isn't that 5 heavy slots?. I like the amount of troops/Shuriken fire also no fast attack? The list looks like a lot of fun, will be nice to actually move more tha unit or 2 per turn

Brutal Viking wrote:
Isn't that 5 heavy slots?. I like the amount of troops/Shuriken fire also no fast attack? The list looks like a lot of fun, will be nice to actually move more tha unit or 2 per turn

All the good stuff is in the eldar hs slots

At 2k and above, you can do double force org charts - so as long as you have 2hq and 4 troops, you're free to bring up to 6 HS.

I'll concur with the selections some have listed, and add that you are taking two Fast Attack choices that aren't as good as Warp Spiders.

You mentoined you like Eldar mobility. Then you'll LOVE Warp Spiders. STR 7 versus low Initiative models and vehicles, 2 shots a piece. These guys are mathematically as deadly as Lootas against vehicles, with better armor, MUCH better mobility to negate the downside of Lootas(LoS blocking).

Brutal Viking wrote:
Hello Dakka.

After much deliberation I've decided to go Eldar for my second army (normally I play Tau). I decided on Eldar because I can ally it with my Tau force, they have great psykers, and I love the mobility they provide. With my Tau I went on a mad buying spree (up to 7000 points now) with no real direction so with this army I decided my bank account would suffer less if I had a plan before I started purchasing. To that end I drafted up a 3000pt list and I would very much like your thoughts on it and what I should change/add/remove. I've been reading the codex but until I actually play a few games I won't be able to get a full grasp of how to play them properly so input there would also be appreciated thanks in advance

* Warlocks (160pts) (Codex: Eldar (2013) p29)
(--Must Be Primary Detachment--, Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Psychic Discipline: Runes of Battle, Psyker (Mastery Level 1), Rune Armor)
* Warlock (40pts)
Singing spear (5pts)
* Warlock (40pts)
Singing spear (5pts)
* Warlock (40pts)
Singing spear (5pts)
* Warlock (40pts)
Singing spear (5pts)


+ HQ + (100pts)

* Farseer (100pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Ghosthelm, Independent Character, Psychic Disciplines: Divination, Runes of Fate, Telepathy, Psyker (Mastery Level 3), Rune Armour)
Witchblade


+ Elites + (485pts)

* Howling Banshees (295pts)
(Acrobatic, Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet)
10x Howling Banshee (150pts)
* Wave Serpent (145pts)
Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Serpent Field, Shuriken cannon (10pts), Twin-linked scatter lasers (5pts)


* Striking Scorpions (190pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Infiltrate, Mandiblasters, Move Through Cover, Stealth)
* Exarch (20pts)
Monster Hunter (5pts) (*), Shuriken Pistol and Biting Blade (5pts)
* 10x Striking Scorpion (170pts)
10x Scorpion Chainsword, 10x Shuriken pistol


+ Troops + (1133pts)

* Dire Avengers (290pts) (Codex: Eldar (2013) p31)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Counter-attack, Fleet)
10x Dire Avenger (130pts)
* Exarch (15pts)
Twin-Linked Avenger Shuriken Catapult (5pts)
* Wave Serpent (145pts)
Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Serpent Field, Shuriken cannon (10pts), Twin-linked brightlances (5pts)


* Dire Avengers (290pts) (Codex: Eldar (2013) p31)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Counter-attack, Fleet)
10x Dire Avenger (130pts)
* Exarch (15pts)
Twin-Linked Avenger Shuriken Catapult (5pts)
* Wave Serpent (145pts)
Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Serpent Field, Shuriken cannon (10pts), Twin-linked brightlances (5pts)


* Guardian Defenders (180pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet)
20x Guardian (180pts)


* Guardian Defenders (253pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet)
12x Guardian (108pts)
* Wave Serpent (145pts)
Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Serpent Field, Shuriken cannon (10pts), Twin-linked brightlances (5pts)


* Rangers (120pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Stealth)
10x Ranger (120pts)


+ Fast Attack + (499pts)

* Crimson Hunter (160pts)
(Skyhunter, Vector Dancer)
Pulse Laser, Two Bright Lances


* Crimson Hunter (160pts)
(Skyhunter, Vector Dancer)
Pulse Laser, Two Bright Lances


* Swooping Hawks (179pts)
(Ancient Doom, Battle Focus, Fleet, Herald of Victory, Skyleap, Swooping Hawk Wings)
9x Swooping Hawk (144pts)
* Exarch (35pts)
Hawk's talon (10pts), Hit & Run (15pts) (*)


+ Heavy Support + (440pts)

* Falcon (160pts)
Brightlance (10pts), Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Pulse Laser, Shuriken cannon (10pts)


* Wraithknight (280pts)
(Ancient Doom, Fearless)
2x Starcannon (40pts), Two Heavy Wraithcannons

ADL with quad-gun

list is hard to read and needs major changes.
1) drop all banshees, they are terrible.
2) drop bright lances from wave sperpents in favor of scatter lasers.
3) drop dire avenger sqauds down to 5 man.
4) drop rangers to 5 man, or replace unit with 2 5 man units. there only role is to score. there fire power is next to nothing, so dont bother getting them for anything other than scoring objectives, whcih can be done in 5 man squads.
5) drop swooping hawks down to 6 man with no upgrades. expept for maybe an exarch.
6) drop the falcon. they are absolute terrible compared to wave serpent with scatter lasers. terrible, and mroe expensive.
7) drop starcannons from wraithknight, can only fire 2 weapons a turn.
8) you have enoguh anti air, no need for a quad gun.

with extra points get
1) more wave serpents (best unit in codex, one of the top [up there with heldrakes] in game)
2) 5 man spider squads (there are teid for second best with war walekrs.
3) war walkers

if you do all of these your list will be really good.
until then, it needs those changes.

I agree with all But... Keep the quad gun because it owns stuff,
also what is the far seer doing? is he solo?

Yeah I didn't really have a plan for him since I'm not sure exactly how to use him. You also mentioned having a lot of AA, where did you see that?

umm.... double crimson hunter? haha thats pretty good anti air.

Oh snap... duh lol sorry I totally spaced and forgot about them


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ok reworked the list with most of your advice so it looks like this now. Please let me know what you guys think I've also added how I would use the unit

Warlocks each break off and join a troop squad while the farseer stays back with the large gaurdian squad and weapons platforms behind an ADL and operates the quad-gun as necessary.

Fite dragons are there to hunt hard targets. Rush in unload, jump back in and repeat as necessary.

I kinda feel my avengers are too light in number to do much besides stay in the serpent and unload only in the last turn or 2 in order to cap an objective or to grab a relic and run. I went with the missile launcher platforms for the 48" range and because pinning although not reliable still isn't a bad thing. The rangers infiltrate to an objective and set up camp.

The Crimson Hunters are my redundant AA and for killing back field hard targets. The warp spiders would be for standard hit & run on enemy controlled objectives.

The heavy support choices are for centerfield control and to soak up shots.


  
* Warlocks (120pts)
        * Warlock (40pts)
            Singing spear (5pts)
        * Warlock (40pts)
            Singing spear (5pts)
        * Warlock (40pts)
            Singing spear (5pts)

+ HQ + (105pts)

    * Farseer (105pts)
        Singing spear (5pts)

+ Elites + (530pts)

    * Fire Dragons (265pts)
        5x Fire Dragon (110pts)
        * Exarch (20pts)
            Fast Shot (10pts), Fusion gun
        * Wave Serpent (135pts)
            Holo-fields (15pts), Serpent Field, Twin-linked scatter lasers (5pts),
Twin-linked shuriken catapults

    * Fire Dragons (265pts)
        5x Fire Dragon (110pts)
        * Exarch (20pts)
            Fast Shot (10pts), Fusion gun
        * Wave Serpent (135pts)
            Holo-fields (15pts), Serpent Field, Twin-linked scatter lasers (5pts),
Twin-linked shuriken catapults

+ Troops + (944pts)

    * Dire Avengers (241pts)
        7x Dire Avenger (91pts)
        * Exarch (15pts)
            Twin-Linked Avenger Shuriken Catapult (5pts)
        * Wave Serpent (135pts)
            Holo-fields (15pts), Serpent Field, Twin-linked scatter lasers (5pts),
Twin-linked shuriken catapults

    * Dire Avengers (241pts)
        7x Dire Avenger (91pts)
        * Exarch (15pts)
            Twin-Linked Avenger Shuriken Catapult (5pts)
        * Wave Serpent (135pts)
            Holo-fields (15pts), Serpent Field, Twin-linked scatter lasers (5pts),
Twin-linked shuriken catapults

    * Guardian Defenders (220pts)
        20x Guardian (180pts)
        * Heavy Weapons Platform (20pts)
            Eldar Missile Launcher (30pts)
        * Heavy Weapons Platform (20pts)
            Eldar Missile Launcher (30pts)

    * Guardian Defenders (234pts)
        11x Guardian (99pts)
        * Wave Serpent (135pts)
            Holo-fields (15pts), Serpent Field, Twin-linked scatter lasers (5pts),
Twin-linked shuriken catapults

    * Rangers (60pts)
        5x Ranger (60pts)

+ Fast Attack + (478pts)

    * Crimson Hunter (160pts)
        Pulse Laser, Two Bright Lances

*Warp Spiders (120pts)
        5x Warp Spider (95pts)
        * Exarch (25pts)
            Fast Shot (10pts),
Twin-Linked Death Spinner (5pts)

    * Warp Spiders (120pts)
        5x Warp Spider (95pts)
        * Exarch (25pts)
            Fast Shot (10pts),
Twin-Linked Death Spinner (5pts)

+ Heavy Support + (720pts)

    * War Walker Squadron (240pts)
        * War Walker (80pts)
            Brightlance (5pts), Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Shuriken cannon
        * War Walker (80pts)
            Brightlance (5pts), Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Shuriken cannon
        * War Walker (80pts)
            Brightlance (5pts), Holo-fields (15pts) (*), Shuriken cannon

    * Wraithknight (240pts)
        Two Heavy Wraithcannons

    * Wraithknight (240pts)
        Two Heavy Wraithcannons

ADL with Quad-Gun (100pts)

total points: 2991

I"m not liking this new list, you don't need 2 unit sof fire dragons one will suffice. You wont' really encounter land raider spam or multiple AV14 vehicles, and if you do the wraith knights can handle it

Give the warwalkers scatter lasers you don't need brightlances on them you already have enough AT power

The Eldar Missile Launcher sucks balls, the guardians can roll with a different weapons platform

Add another farseer

and maybe some wraiths in a wave serpent in elites you can choose their weapon load out the flamers are nice since you should have all your AT needs covered by the firedragons and wraithknight

I"m not liking this new list, you don't need 2 unit sof fire dragons one will suffice. You wont' really encounter land raider spam or multiple AV14 vehicles, and if you do the wraith knights can handle it

Well, I generally run 2 units of FD and I think that one is too less.
Recently, vs. Tau I used them against the Broadsides and the Riptide. They can disembark and move rather far towards the enemy. Opponents tend to underestimate this. Then they were in range with their meltas. Ouch.

In general you want fire dragons to attack the strongest meanest tank, or an elite instant killable squad either way this isn't 5th ed, you dont' 'need' more than 1 squad of firewarriors when you have 2 wraithknights and tons of shooting.

If anything i'd switch the 2nd squad of fire dragons for wraithguard who can do just as much damage and take a beating with grace

i would say one squad of fragons because of the wraithknights.

also fragons need no upgrades. they will kill a tank with or without the 25 points of upgrades on him.

Ok so I made the changes; the wraithguard unit bumps me over by 45 points. Should I drop the ADL and quad gun and find 55 points or keep it and fhave 45?

yuo could keep the line but drop the quad gun.

Will 1 crimson hunter be enough AA?

Brutal Viking wrote:
Will 1 crimson hunter be enough AA?

Serpents are great for anti air. (Twin linked) S7 and no cover save are good prerequisites to take down even AV12 flyers.