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Primary detachment

HQ:
Chaos Lord (SoC, LC, BBoS, MoS)
Sorcerer (SoC, Force weapon, Mastery level 3, spell familiar, MoS)

315 points

Troops:

10x NM (2x blastmasters, 7x sonic blasters, icon of excess, champ has melta bombs and doom siren, rhino)
10x NM (2x blastmasters, 7x sonic blasters, icon of excess, champ has melta bombs and doom siren, rhino)
7x NM (1x blastmaster, 5x sonic blasters,, champ has melta bombs and doom siren, rhino)

921 points

Fast attack:
2x Baledrakes
1x Hadedrake

510 points

Allied Black Legion Detachment

HQ:
Sorcerer (SoC, force weapon, mastery level 4, spell familiar, VotLW, MoS, last memory)

200 points

Troops:
10xcultists

50 points

Total of 1996 points

I wouldn't recommend mixing SB with BM because they engage two completely different types of targets.

This is a great list. It is scary.

 Brometheus wrote:
I wouldn't recommend mixing SB with BM because they engage two completely different types of targets.

This is a great list. It is scary.

Thank you very much, and I know it's frowned upon to mix the sonic and blastmaster but for 3 points it adds so much more. I really want endurance and symphony of pain on my sorcerer's but the FNP from endurance becomes redundant with the icon of excess (relentless is the perk I want from endurance too). Should i get rid of an icon of excess on a unit, two, all, or none?

It's a mileage-may-vary situation. For example, I know a Plague Marine player who stopped playing Nurgle because he barely ever made FnP. Lol: Statistics? I know another Death Guard player who always makes FnP when I play him.

I'm serious. ALWAYS.

I am very interested in the Double MoS sorcerers. Biomancy x4 means that you have a good chance of getting Endurance on one unit that REALLY needs it (like a unit of NM on that objective about to take an enemy Baleflamer). I think that's better than spending the points to have it on everyone.

I like that list. Even though that squad of Cultists seems slightly out of place ('seems' being the keyword), from what I can tell it is indeed a very scary army. Those two Sorcs can buff the NMs to rapetastic levels

haha yea the cultists are just necessary to take the allied supplement. I'll hold them in reserves and they'll be back up objective holders.

The biggest problem I see with this list is nothing can really kill 2+ armor saves... Sure I can ID anything if it doesn't have EW, vehicles should be scared, and if you depend on cover saves I'll play my air guitar for you with a huge smile. But those damn 2+ saves, probably ignore those models until i kill all the troops and just drown them in wounds

My squad of NMs has proved decent in dealing with my friend's Deathwing Terminators those few times they interacted. They literally drown them with sonic blasts, and there always will be a couple of 1s when he gets to make ~30 armour saves

I am surprised that you are worried about 2+ armor saves. I am about to drop my Plasma Gun Havocs because I have been killing Terminators just as well with massed bolter fire. I'm considering taking autocannon havocs instead.

Flying Monstrous Creatures and Wave Serpent Spam/Dark Eldar venom spam (if you don't have FnP to resist those last two) would be this list's fear. Yes, even with Heldrakes to Vector Strike.

 Brometheus wrote:
I am surprised that you are worried about 2+ armor saves. I am about to drop my Plasma Gun Havocs because I have been killing Terminators just as well with massed bolter fire. I'm considering taking autocannon havocs instead.

Flying Monstrous Creatures and Wave Serpent Spam/Dark Eldar venom spam (if you don't have FnP to resist those last two) would be this list's fear. Yes, even with Heldrakes to Vector Strike.

True, I haven't run this list yet. I'm sure I can take down 2+ models, its just seems like a lot of effort on paper. I actually think this is a list that might not be to bad in a competition... Also deciding to take off one icon of excess from a unit- sure I'll atleast get one sorcerer with endurance. Any suggestions what to do with the 30 points? (dirge casters, PW for champs, etc.)

It's not bad to give NM champs a Power Sword because of their I5 and the fact that they have to issue/accept anyways, as you know. I don't think two PWs would be a waste at all.

@chillis - I like your thinking but can't agree with 3 heldrake lists. Noise Marines can get it done on their own and the Dark Prince wants them getting their glory!

Discussion about a very similar list over here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/562225.page#6233938

 techsoldaten wrote:
@chillis - I like your thinking but can't agree with 3 heldrake lists. Noise Marines can get it done on their own and the Dark Prince wants them getting their glory!

Discussion about a very similar list over here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/562225.page#6233938

So I read what you said in the other list, but your comment in the other list suggests adding heldrakes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
- I can see your points on both comments though- I just like the aspect of anti ap3 templates, templates in general, and additional vector strikes. I would consider getting rid of one though

 Brometheus wrote:
I am surprised that you are worried about 2+ armor saves. I am about to drop my Plasma Gun Havocs because I have been killing Terminators just as well with massed bolter fire. I'm considering taking autocannon havocs instead.

Flying Monstrous Creatures and Wave Serpent Spam/Dark Eldar venom spam (if you don't have FnP to resist those last two) would be this list's fear. Yes, even with Heldrakes to Vector Strike.

I would leave the Hades Autocannon on 1 of the 3 Heldrakes. You have a lot of "ignores cover" weapons already, and the baleflamer, while effective against troops, isn't that useful against vehicles. It can't be used against other flyers, either.

The Hades Autocannon is Str 8, 4 shots with pinning. It will do well against armor up to at least 12 - you could even glance AV14 with it. Range is great, at 36". Since you have a 360 degree arc of fire, you can send the autocannon drake down the middle of the board, vector strike what armor you pass over, and hit flyers and/or vehicles from range with 4 pretty strong shots.

Vector strike is 1d3+1, and maybe it's just me, but I keep getting only 2 strikes!. Str 7 is ok against side armor (usually 10 or 11), but it requires you to overfly. With the 90 degree turn limit, you will find yourself in positions where you have trouble over-flying a vehicle or other flyer after the initial run out of reserves.

Just a thought.

-Aeglos

Its a very good thought. I'm not really worried about ground vehicles but having that extra AA could be worth the trade out of one of the drake's weapons...

 chillis wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
@chillis - I like your thinking but can't agree with 3 heldrake lists. Noise Marines can get it done on their own and the Dark Prince wants them getting their glory!

Discussion about a very similar list over here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/562225.page#6233938

So I read what you said in the other list, but your comment in the other list suggests adding heldrakes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
- I can see your points on both comments though- I just like the aspect of anti ap3 templates, templates in general, and additional vector strikes. I would consider getting rid of one though

Yeah, nothing is absolute. I am looking at the lists themselves, and thinking about what you can do with the way it is built. Don't mistake me for the dude with all the answers, and forgive me if it looks like I am contradicting myself every once in a while.

3 Heldrakes with Noise Marines just seems like overkill. I have not tried to run such a list, my concerns are not related to spam so much as having long-range firepower on the board before they come in. Noise Marines with full sonics can lay down a lot of firepower, but they are really only effective at 12 inches unless they are standing still. It's important to be able to deal with a big nasty without having to disembark from Rhinos prematurely.

That's all I am saying.

can you ally with your own codex at 1999?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can you ally with your own codex at 1999pts?

 techsoldaten wrote:

 chillis wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
@chillis - I like your thinking but can't agree with 3 heldrake lists. Noise Marines can get it done on their own and the Dark Prince wants them getting their glory!

Discussion about a very similar list over here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/562225.page#6233938

So I read what you said in the other list, but your comment in the other list suggests adding heldrakes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
- I can see your points on both comments though- I just like the aspect of anti ap3 templates, templates in general, and additional vector strikes. I would consider getting rid of one though

Yeah, nothing is absolute. I am looking at the lists themselves, and thinking about what you can do with the way it is built. Don't mistake me for the dude with all the answers, and forgive me if it looks like I am contradicting myself every once in a while.

3 Heldrakes with Noise Marines just seems like overkill. I have not tried to run such a list, my concerns are not related to spam so much as having long-range firepower on the board before they come in. Noise Marines with full sonics can lay down a lot of firepower, but they are really only effective at 12 inches unless they are standing still. It's important to be able to deal with a big nasty without having to disembark from Rhinos prematurely.

That's all I am saying.

Oh I understand, I was kind of hoping to depend on getting endurance on at least one sorcerer (hope to the chaos god of slaanesh)- that way movement really doesn't matter and I can alternate buffing 2 units out of 3 if I get one sorcerer, or all three units if I get 2 sorcerer's with it. I do the same thing with rhino's that you explained in the other post so I made sure to add those too. I like having insurance if things don't turn out how I'd like them to lol. What do you think about changing one Baledrake to a Hadesdrake?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 everwynd wrote:
can you ally with your own codex at 1999?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can you ally with your own codex at 1999pts?

Oh my mistake, I should have put "Allied Black Legion Supplement" it's not the same codex. If you were thinking that it was a dfoc that happens at 2000+ (which you would be correct)
just edited it to say black legion additionally.