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So I am looking to build my first army i want to run Daemons but I don't wanna go with a 100% cheese list. I do want to go Nurgle/Tzeentch so here is what i was thinking for my first list.

2000pts

HQ
Kairos Fateweaver 300pts

Lord Of Change 255pts
upgraded to lvl 3
(should i give this guy gifts if so how much)

Troops:

20x Pink Horrors 180pts

20x Plaguebearers 180pts


Heavy Support:

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
Daemonic Flight 40 pts
Warp-forged Armor 20 pts
Lvl 3 psyker 75pts
50 pts of gifts
total 355pts

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
Daemonic Flight 40 pts
Warp-forged Armor 20 pts
Lvl 3 psyker 75pts
50 pts of gifts
total 355pts

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
Daemonic Flight 40 pts
Warp-forged Armor 20 pts
Lvl 3 psyker 75pts
50 pts of gifts
total 355pts

Grand total 2000 pts even

You should split your troops to make 4 groups of ten. That will help immensely in objective games.
Also make sure you have the grimoire on one of the princes for Fateweaver. For LoC I would at least take the staff under lesser rewards. He'll be better in CC.

Other than that it's a pretty standard flying circus list. I think everyone takes different rewards but usually an exalted and a greater should suffice. I like it overall.

corpsyworpsy wrote:
You should split your troops to make 4 groups of ten. That will help immensely in objective games.
Also make sure you have the grimoire on one of the princes for Fateweaver. For LoC I would at least take the staff under lesser rewards. He'll be better in CC.

Other than that it's a pretty standard flying circus list. I think everyone takes different rewards but usually an exalted and a greater should suffice. I like it overall.

thank you thats what i was looking for i didnt know this is what flying circus was tho ><

I tend to run daemonic rewards in 2 Greater and 1 Lesser; Lesser for an Etherblade (trade-out), and 2 Greater for possibly getting something delicious like a 3+ armor save or 4+ FNP. Thats just my opinion. That looks like a pretty solid list though!

Why take an etherblade on a MC? it's attacks are allready at AP2. allways take the staff for Tzeentch FMCs, as it gives +2 str and the MC is already AP2.

Sorry to ninja your thread, I have only just picked up my new deamons codex yesterday and was wondering how you are getting deamon princes in you heavy support slots?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No worries I found the entry under fateweaver in a nice little box.

Not bad maybe swap out the LOC for a DP of slaanesh and take a couple of greater gifts one for lash of slaanesh, and level3 all on biomancy. Thats 2D6 str 6-9 rending skyfire shots. That will put most flyers out the sky.

With Tz daemons I always run 2 greaters and a lesser for the staff.

Also always drop one of your Biomancy(For the DP's) or Divination spells for flicker fire!!!

Kairos is a great Ch don't get me wrong but when you don't "NEED" his re-roll for Grimm on the screamer council or stuff like that I'd say try another LoC as they are IMO better all round!

Loving the Daemons at the moment!

I'm confused...didn't you say that you didn't want to go with 100% cheese?

Flying Circus up there with riptide/wave serpent spam.

Are you interested in suggestions on making this list less cheesy?

Flying circus is competitive, but i wouldnt say as bad as wave serpent spam or riptide spam.

 necronspurs2012 wrote:
Flying circus is competitive, but i wouldnt say as bad as wave serpent spam or riptide spam.

Flying circus wins tournaments, if we assume that riptide/serpent spam is 10 out of 10 (game breaking) I'd say flying circus is 8.5 out of 10

with screamerstar being 9 out of 10 as it's definetly more effective than 5 FMCs

considering he said he doesn't want to be cheesy, that's why i asked if he wants suggestions of thigns to take out to drop his list to a semi-competitive level.

If he's playing pick up games against other beginners (he said he's new) then he's going to abusing them with this powergaming tournament list. 2 or 3 FMCs is good enough for a solid start.

Problem also comes down to competitive vs cheese. Some army's need to cheese to be competitive (I'm looking at you helldrake), though with my read through of the deamons codex I think there are plenty of fun yet strong build that will suit. shame you are slimming the options with your theme.

kranki wrote:
Problem also comes down to competitive vs cheese. Some army's need to cheese to be competitive (I'm looking at you helldrake), though with my read through of the deamons codex I think there are plenty of fun yet strong build that will suit. shame you are slimming the options with your theme.

I completely agree, and as a daemons players i can tell you with certainty that there's plenty options that are competitive without revolving around screamerstar or flying circus.

CSM do need heldrakes to compete against top armies with TAC lists as CSM don't do TAC without heldrake support well.
Black Legion supplement however helps mitigate this for them as allies.

But yeah with daemons it's a completely diff story this is a cheese oriented list. Specially for a first timer unless he's only going to be facing pros i think he'll overwhelm any and all beginners

 Akaiyou wrote:

kranki wrote:
Problem also comes down to competitive vs cheese. Some army's need to cheese to be competitive (I'm looking at you helldrake), though with my read through of the deamons codex I think there are plenty of fun yet strong build that will suit. shame you are slimming the options with your theme.

I completely agree, and as a daemons players i can tell you with certainty that there's plenty options that are competitive without revolving around screamerstar or flying circus.

CSM do need heldrakes to compete against top armies with TAC lists as CSM don't do TAC without heldrake support well.
Black Legion supplement however helps mitigate this for them as allies.

But yeah with daemons it's a completely diff story this is a cheese oriented list. Specially for a first timer unless he's only going to be facing pros i think he'll overwhelm any and all beginners

trust me i know i play mono tzeentch daemons with fateweaver 3 heralds 33 horrors 3 flamers soul grinder and dp and its very competitive

kranki wrote:
Sorry to ninja your thread, I have only just picked up my new deamons codex yesterday and was wondering how you are getting deamon princes in you heavy support slots?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No worries I found the entry under fateweaver in a nice little box.

To anwser this question its based on HQ if you read the small extra box under your hq they will say if you take them as a hq Daemon prices with the mark of the same HQ count as heavy support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Akaiyou wrote:
I'm confused...didn't you say that you didn't want to go with 100% cheese?

Flying Circus up there with riptide/wave serpent spam.

Are you interested in suggestions on making this list less cheesy?

I dont understand how this is cheese list really idk what screamingstar is but after reading the codex this just seemed like it was viable to be good. i also thought about running less daemon prices and getting some screamers and flamers in here but model wise they are kinda expensive for the amount you need.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 necronspurs2012 wrote:

 Akaiyou wrote:

kranki wrote:
Problem also comes down to competitive vs cheese. Some army's need to cheese to be competitive (I'm looking at you helldrake), though with my read through of the deamons codex I think there are plenty of fun yet strong build that will suit. shame you are slimming the options with your theme.

I completely agree, and as a daemons players i can tell you with certainty that there's plenty options that are competitive without revolving around screamerstar or flying circus.

CSM do need heldrakes to compete against top armies with TAC lists as CSM don't do TAC without heldrake support well.
Black Legion supplement however helps mitigate this for them as allies.

But yeah with daemons it's a completely diff story this is a cheese oriented list. Specially for a first timer unless he's only going to be facing pros i think he'll overwhelm any and all beginners

trust me i know i play mono tzeentch daemons with fateweaver 3 heralds 33 horrors 3 flamers soul grinder and dp and its very competitive

If its that big of a cheese list I'm up for hearing some ideas on how to change it I mainly made the list based on it looked like it would do well as no one at my store is newer then 6mo other then me and its low model count which = less money spent at the start as i am also buy a fantasy army. Aslo what is the Screamingstar list you guys keep bringing up ?

Screamer Council or Screamingstar is a unit of 9 screamers with 4 lvl 3 heralds on disks and the exalted grimoire. (Also the Tz locus to make flicker fire s6!!)

Your aiming for the 4 up inv spell then you use the Grimoire to give them a 2 up inv and Tz re-roll 1's so 2 up with a re-roll!

When using that you need Kairos so you don't fail the grimoire

 Helston wrote:
Screamer Council or Screamingstar is a unit of 9 screamers with 4 lvl 3 heralds on disks and the exalted grimoire. (Also the Tz locus to make flicker fire s6!!)

Your aiming for the 4 up inv spell then you use the Grimoire to give them a 2 up inv and Tz re-roll 1's so 2 up with a re-roll!

When using that you need Kairos so you don't fail the grimoire

so basicly you become invincible

Except for the 1 herald with the book, he isn't as invincible as his unit, so you need to protect him

Screamer star hound star are by far the most competitive lists us daemon players can use, flying circus also is competitive and kinda cheesy but i would say its an alright list. Against other beginners on the other hand, it may be a bit mean. Even though i play daemon im a mono tzeentch player, i know all the units and gods but when it comes to tzeentch i actually know what im doing, so ill help with a list if you want just need to know if your going mono or using multiple god units?

If the dice go your way you are pretty invincible but not totally.

As Akaiyou says the Grim holder can't cast it on his unit and himself so he can be picked off but with lookout sir and challenges you should be able to keep him safe.

If you play against someone with Misfortune you can be in quite a lot of trouble and enemy daemon players can Grimoire you too.

There are ways to beat the screamer council but against Noobs or insufficiently armed army's you should be good but remember its a game of dice so it can all go to s**t no matter how good your army is =)

 necronspurs2012 wrote:
Screamer star hound star are by far the most competitive lists us daemon players can use, flying circus also is competitive and kinda cheesy but i would say its an alright list. Against other beginners on the other hand, it may be a bit mean. Even though i play daemon im a mono tzeentch player, i know all the units and gods but when it comes to tzeentch i actually know what im doing, so ill help with a list if you want just need to know if your going mono or using multiple god units?

I'm open to both options really for me its mostly about models as i love painting Daemons. My biggest thing tho is i have a guy at my LFGS that runs broken Daemon list all the time and it kinda makes people mad sometimes but most just expect him to win anyway cause hes a long time vet player and i just dont wanna copy his list so id like to go a little more rounded then just fateweaver and loads of DPs like he does.

Then why did you make a flying circus list if you already knew how cheesy it's considered at your LGS?

But anyway which models do you definetly want to include in your list ?

Drop a DP and get more plaguebearers you need the extra troops for Objective games.
Also get exalted rewards and revert to 0. Then get the grimoire of true names. It works at it's best with Kairos because of his 1 re-roll per turn.

Zero wrong with the circus list... Our troops are weak, but cheap. Soulgrinders are meh and the other good options in our book are hounds, seekers and screamers. Two of those choices are looked upon as cheese. People in this game now a days will call anything halfway decent cheese, or call you a cheesy player if you're doing anything other than fielding sub par units. Don't listen to them brother. I think your initial list is fine. Go with that if that's what you would like to play.


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Also, as others have said. I would cut your troops units into 4 ten man squads.

 Akaiyou wrote:
Then why did you make a flying circus list if you already knew how cheesy it's considered at your LGS?

But anyway which models do you definetly want to include in your list ?

cause its not the same as how he does it so i didnt think it was the same he uses no troops and just tables people with lots of DP's

i just wanted to go with psyker spam of flickerfire but wasnt sure what the best way to do it is. are flamers and screamers worth taking and how many of each and what do i lose to take them?

If you want psyker spam of flicker fire you'll want the screamerstar that's exactly what it is.

Get fateweaver, 4 heralds of tzeentch, 9 screamers
(flamers are bad, i got 15 of them trust me lol)

And you can add in some tzeentch DPs for heavy support and you wil be golden. You will not only crush his flying circus list with this, but you'll crush a lot of competitive lists and standard lists will be no match for you

2000 Pts - Codex: Chaos Daemons Roster

HQ:
1 Herald of Tzeentch, 120 pts (Mastery 3; Disc of Tzeentch)

1 Herald of Tzeentch, 120 pts (Mastery 3; Disc of Tzeentch)

1 Herald of Tzeentch, 120 pts (Mastery 3; Disc of Tzeentch)

1 Herald of Tzeentch, 150 pts (Exalted Rewards; Mastery 3; Disc of Tzeentch)

1 Kairos Fateweaver, 300 pts (Warlord)

Troops:
20 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch, 180 pts

20 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch, 180 pts

Fast Attack:
8 Screamers of Tzeentch, 200 pts

Heavy Support:
1 Daemon Prince, 315 pts (Daemonic Flight; DoT; Exalted Rewards; Mastery 3)

1 Daemon Prince, 315 pts (Daemonic Flight; DoT; Exalted Rewards; Mastery 3)

Total Roster Cost: 2000

You should be able to throw flicker fire on everything here and go all out with it

 LunarRayne wrote:

are flamers and screamers worth taking and how many of each and what do i lose to take them?

Screamers virtually win games for me.. Alone. Yes, you want to take 9 of them..