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Let me know what you think:

+++ Tzeench (2000 Pts) +++

+ HQ + (595pts)

* Ahriman (230pts)
(Aura of dark glory, Champion of Chaos, Fearless, Independent Character, Mark of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, Psyker (Mastery Level 4), Veterans of the Long War, Warlord Traits: Master of Deception)


* Daemon Prince (365pts)
(Daemon, Fearless, Veterans of the Long War)
Gift of mutation, 3x Mastery Level (become Psyker), Power Armour, Spell familiar, The Black Mace, Tzeentch, Wings


+ Troops + (937pts)

* Thousand Sons (Troops) (297pts)
(Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War)
Aspiring Sorcerer, Icon of Flame, 8x Thousand Son
* Chaos Rhino
(Repair)
Combi-bolter, Dozer Blade, Searchlight, Smoke launchers


* Thousand Sons (Troops) (320pts)
(Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War)
Aspiring Sorcerer, Icon of Flame, 9x Thousand Son
* Chaos Rhino
(Repair)
Combi-bolter, Dozer Blade, Searchlight, Smoke launchers


* Thousand Sons (Troops) (320pts)
(Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War)
Aspiring Sorcerer, Icon of Flame, 9x Thousand Son
* Chaos Rhino
(Repair)
Combi-bolter, Dozer Blade, Searchlight, Smoke launchers


+ Heavy Support + (468pts)

* Obliterators (234pts)
(Bulky, Daemon, Deep Strike, Obliterator Weapons, Slow and Purposeful)
Mark of Tzeentch, 3x Obliterators


* Obliterators (234pts)
(Bulky, Daemon, Deep Strike, Obliterator Weapons, Slow and Purposeful)
Mark of Tzeentch, 3x Obliterator

List is hard to read you got their basic profile on there remove it, anyone replying to this already should know these guys inside out.

Other than that, i think you won't do very good with this, unfortunately tzeentch has been getting screwed hard in the recent CSM books.

Hordes will be too tough for this list and elite armies will also be too tough for this. At best you can hope to only use it competitively against MEQ lists that don't spam vehicles.

With that said, break up the oblits into 3 squads of 2, as you really lack anti vehicle power at least this gives you the option to possibly target 3 of them.

I think thousand sons are best played with daemon allies, my suggestion, drop oblits and a squad of thousand sons, possible the daemon prince too or turn Ahriman into a generic sorc with MoT, and add some daemon of tzeentch stuff like heralds and pink horrors and maybe some khorne doggies or screamers.

I agree with that, tzeentch daemon allies can help make up for the deficiencies in the csm thousand sons army and still stick to a tzeentch theme

A single CSM prince is an bad choice when you can take allies. His Tzeentch power means that's one less chance at Iron Arm. That prince is two Heldrakes which were practically *made* for us Tzeentch players, and would outperform the prince and reinforce theme anyway (that Ahriman is actually in charge and not just co-signing).

Those Oblits can be Demon Allies, which I highly recommend.. I would even go so far as to drop a unit of Tsons for some Havocs that Ahriman can auto-Outflank with who are armed with either 4x Plasma or 4x Flamers. It is easy to tailor Ahriman's psychic powers to fit in with either of those two Havoc loadouts, and it's better that he rides with Havocs than Thousand Sons because they engage different targets: Ahriman vs. Horde/TEQ and Tsons vs. 3+ Armor.

Ultimately, this list is effective but can be improved. The problem with Tsons heavy lists is that they have issues engaging multiple targets. This is more painful when you add stuff like Dozer Blades and Icon of Flame because those points add up and you don't see any benefit. 1-2 Drakes flying on the board to vector strike and then flame completely separate units is a huge plus for an army that should be focus firing units down. Example: 2x units of Tsons should be firing at 1 Tactical Squad because a single unit of Tsons can't be trusted to erase them. Another reason to have drakes or any other fast attack option is that it helps in the Scouring. If you dont like Drakes, you can get Screamers.

I just hate to see Obliterators get insta-popped by strength 8+ just because you suffered a wound when you could have T5 Oblits in 4+ Ruins.. and no, I don't think that it breaks theme because GW has no idea how to represent Tsons anyway and even MoTz Oblits have flesh so aren't sorcerers *or* Rubricae.

I've seen lots of your posts and I know you know how to play. I'm just rambling on extra for the benefit of new players who might be lurking and reading.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Let me know what you think:

+++ Tzeench (2000 Pts) +++

+ HQ + (595pts)

* Ahriman (230pts)
(Aura of dark glory, Champion of Chaos, Fearless, Independent Character, Mark of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery, Psyker (Mastery Level 4), Veterans of the Long War, Warlord Traits: Master of Deception)


* Daemon Prince (365pts)
(Daemon, Fearless, Veterans of the Long War)
Gift of mutation, 3x Mastery Level (become Psyker), Power Armour, Spell familiar, The Black Mace, Tzeentch, Wings


+ Troops + (937pts)

* Thousand Sons (Troops) (297pts)
(Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War)
Aspiring Sorcerer, Icon of Flame, 8x Thousand Son
* Chaos Rhino
(Repair)
Combi-bolter, Dozer Blade, Searchlight, Smoke launchers


* Thousand Sons (Troops) (320pts)
(Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War)
Aspiring Sorcerer, Icon of Flame, 9x Thousand Son
* Chaos Rhino
(Repair)
Combi-bolter, Dozer Blade, Searchlight, Smoke launchers


* Thousand Sons (Troops) (320pts)
(Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War)
Aspiring Sorcerer, Icon of Flame, 9x Thousand Son
* Chaos Rhino
(Repair)
Combi-bolter, Dozer Blade, Searchlight, Smoke launchers


+ Heavy Support + (468pts)

* Obliterators (234pts)
(Bulky, Daemon, Deep Strike, Obliterator Weapons, Slow and Purposeful)
Mark of Tzeentch, 3x Obliterators


* Obliterators (234pts)
(Bulky, Daemon, Deep Strike, Obliterator Weapons, Slow and Purposeful)
Mark of Tzeentch, 3x Obliterator

were you using battlescribe, is that 10 marines 1 upgrade to a sorcerer or 9 1 upgraded to a sorcerer. dont know about ahriman generally a DP or a sorcerer will do better... but do it for fun of witchfire and because its a theme list

At 2000 points you could field 4 sorcerrers (or Ahriman and 3 sorcerrers)

I'm planning to supplement my Khorne Army with Thousand Sons, so I'm also interested how this goes.

The good thing I see with TS is the relentless, AP3 and 4+ inv save, however the downside is the 24" maximum threat range and also once they are assaulted, they are practically lost.

Either have a counter assault unit or additional long range units would complement them. 4x5 Havocs with autocannons, 4 predators or 4 Vindicator

I'd field something like this:

4 Sorcerrers with MoT: 400-500pts
4 x 9 Thousand Son + Rhino: 1100-1200 pts
500ish pts for support

 everwynd wrote:
At 2000 points you could field 4 sorcerrers (or Ahriman and 3 sorcerrers)

I'm planning to supplement my Khorne Army with Thousand Sons, so I'm also interested how this goes.

The good thing I see with TS is the relentless, AP3 and 4+ inv save, however the downside is the 24" maximum threat range and also once they are assaulted, they are practically lost.

Either have a counter assault unit or additional long range units would complement them. 4x5 Havocs with autocannons, 4 predators or 4 Vindicator

I'd field something like this:

4 Sorcerrers with MoT: 400-500pts
4 x 9 Thousand Son + Rhino: 1100-1200 pts
500ish pts for support

He could actually field 6 sorcerers altogether (with the allies), but would have to have 6 troops. MASS SORCERER LIST THEME


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll be posting one of those tomorrow...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Brometheus is pretty spot on with what he said, I think his main is Tsons so I'd trust him- except heldrakes are made for all factions they're so gosh darn good

 Brometheus wrote:
A single CSM prince is an bad choice when you can take allies. His Tzeentch power means that's one less chance at Iron Arm. That prince is two Heldrakes which were practically *made* for us Tzeentch players, and would outperform the prince and reinforce theme anyway (that Ahriman is actually in charge and not just co-signing).

Those Oblits can be Demon Allies, which I highly recommend.. I would even go so far as to drop a unit of Tsons for some Havocs that Ahriman can auto-Outflank with who are armed with either 4x Plasma or 4x Flamers. It is easy to tailor Ahriman's psychic powers to fit in with either of those two Havoc loadouts, and it's better that he rides with Havocs than Thousand Sons because they engage different targets: Ahriman vs. Horde/TEQ and Tsons vs. 3+ Armor.

Ultimately, this list is effective but can be improved. The problem with Tsons heavy lists is that they have issues engaging multiple targets. This is more painful when you add stuff like Dozer Blades and Icon of Flame because those points add up and you don't see any benefit. 1-2 Drakes flying on the board to vector strike and then flame completely separate units is a huge plus for an army that should be focus firing units down. Example: 2x units of Tsons should be firing at 1 Tactical Squad because a single unit of Tsons can't be trusted to erase them. Another reason to have drakes or any other fast attack option is that it helps in the Scouring. If you dont like Drakes, you can get Screamers.

I just hate to see Obliterators get insta-popped by strength 8+ just because you suffered a wound when you could have T5 Oblits in 4+ Ruins.. and no, I don't think that it breaks theme because GW has no idea how to represent Tsons anyway and even MoTz Oblits have flesh so aren't sorcerers *or* Rubricae.

I've seen lots of your posts and I know you know how to play. I'm just rambling on extra for the benefit of new players who might be lurking and reading.

Sweet cheers dude! I know you have seen a lot of my posts, but most of those are Khornate themed. Partly me refusing to accept that combat is poor. Having settled on that god, I'm looking at my next one now. Having NEVER played a god other than Khorne, I am genuinely great flu for the advice! That in mind, can I be real cheeky and ask you for a rough list - basically how you would change mine? The bonus with this list is I have NO MODELS at all yet! So it is a blank canvas! I would like to stay within the CSM codex and BL supplement, and I know that might present a challenge!!

Be very interesting to see what you say?

I usually run something very similar to this (usually less oblits and sons with added cultist + tzentch daemons).

I think your original list looks like a lot of fun though, and I would suggest getting out there and playing with it, and just tweak from there based on your playstyle.

Welcome to the league of sorcerers!

Thousand Sons have several bases to cover in their army list
-Something in the army needs speed
-The Thousand Sons also need speed
-The army must be able to attack MSU in a single turn
-The army needs something to absorb small arms fire

I know you hate them....but heldrakes are the things to take here. They meet two criteria: they're both fast and can attack multiple units with vector strike and the baleflamer

rhinos/land raiders are required for the thousand sons

cultists terminators land raiders chaos spawn....these are all good options for absorbing fire. Cultists are troop choices, termies can deepstrike in, land raiders doubly act as transports, and chaos spawn are beasts so they are fast and move through cover and all that

sorcerers usually benefit most from the telepathy tree

Ahriman must fire everything every turn. Primarus powers and biomancy are good for him usually because he might be in CC close as he will be to the enemy

this is the current list im working on. I'd take out the helbrute and put in something else, maybe more cultists, but im simply in love with the FW model and I dont care.

2000pts
Ahriman (Warlord)
Sorcerer of Tzeentch- AoDG, Mastery Level 3, Spell Familiar
9 Thousand Sons- Melta Bomb, Rhino (Ahriman goes here)
9 Thousand Sons- Melta Bomb, Rhino (Sorcerer goes here)
Helbrute- Reaper Autocannon, Missile Launcher
Chaos Vindicator- Daemonic Possession
Chaos Vindicator- Daemonic Possession
Chaos Vindicator- Daemonic Possession
Heldrake- Baleflamer
Heldrake- Baleflamer
20 Chaos Cultists
20 Chaos Cultists

Although the tsons are in cardboard boxes, the vindicator wall protects them as they advance. Heldrakes attack MSU and are fast, and kill units in cover hiding from my vindies. cultists cap objectives and soak fire, sorcerer rolls on telepathy for invisibility and other fun stuff, ahriman rolls for 3 witchfires. I think its ok. The whole idea is instead of taking MSU of tsons you take a few larger squads and take a bunch of big gribbly bad things to distract your opponent like vindicators heldrakes and daemon princes.

changerofways has a pretty solid list. If I picked the OP list apart, I'd turn it into:

1999
Ahriman (warlord)
Sorcerer- Level 3
10 Tsons- Rhino
9 Tsons- Rhino
9 Tsons- Rhino
Heldrake- Baleflamer
Heldrake- Baleflamer
Herald of Tz- Exalted R., Disc, Level 3
10 Horrors
9 Screamers

-The 468pts in Oblits is turned into demon allies which provide anti-tank and army buffing in general for 465pts
-The prince is turned into 2 heldrakes, basically
-The list has 4 solid troops choice (one of which can hold objectives and Go to Ground while re-rolling saves of "1".
-You have 2 HQ sorcerers, which are powerful and keep to the Thousand Sons theme. The 2nd HQ doesn't need MoTz (Read: Ahriman: Exile), and you still are able to hide him in a Rhino.
-The list has 3 Infantry units that can take advantage of Master of Deception

The only *real* weaknesses:
-Psyker Heavy
-No HS (not a big deal- Just kill the enemy's HS in Big Guns Never Tire- Very easy with Screamers)

Lol check these out using CSM + BL supplement

2000 Pts - Codex: Chaos Space Marines Roster

HQ:
1 Sorcerer, 150 pts (MoT; Bolt Pistol; Force Axe; Mastery 3; SoC)

1 Sorcerer, 150 pts (MoT; Bolt Pistol; Force Axe; Mastery 3; SoC)

1 Sorcerer, 150 pts (MoT; Bolt Pistol; Force Axe; Mastery 3; SoC)

1 Ahriman, 230 pts (Warlord)

Troops:
4 Thousand Sons, 185 pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer (Force Axe; Telepathy; Tzeentch)
1 Chaos Rhino (Combi-Boltgun)

4 Thousand Sons, 185 pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer (Force Axe; Telepathy; Tzeentch)
1 Chaos Rhino (Combi-Boltgun)

4 Thousand Sons, 185 pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer (Force Axe; Telepathy; Tzeentch)
1 Chaos Rhino (Combi-Boltgun)

4 Thousand Sons, 185 pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer (Force Axe; Telepathy; Tzeentch)
1 Chaos Rhino (Combi-Boltgun)

Fast Attack:
1 Heldrake, 170 pts
1 Heldrake, 170 pts

HQ:
1 Sorcerer, 155 pts (MoT; Bolt Pistol; Force Axe; Mastery 3; SoC; VotLW)

Troops:
13 Chaos Cultists, 85 pts (MoT; Flamer x1)
1 Cultist Champion

Total Roster Cost: 2000


4 mastery 3 sorcerers with 3+ inv, 4 squads of thousand sons in rhinos, 2 heldrakes to burn gak with, ahriman and a nice unit of tzeenth cultists to pay tribute to Ahriman's greatness lol

Not sure how competitive it would be but it's definetly very tzeentch

If you don't want 2 drakes you could drop one and add another thousand sons unit in rhino with a couple less cultists.

Heck yes dude. Heck yes.