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How would you guys rate this list on a scale of 1 to 10.
1 = Non-competitive play, gaks and giggles
10 = Tournament winning, game breaking

Please NO SUGGESTIONS. Feel free to rate, review and give your opinion. But the list won't be changed.

I'm running this on November 23 at my LGS for a 1,000 pts tournament. I don't have more inventory (painted and based) and i want to run a pure Khorne list.

1000 Pts - Chaos Daemons Roster - Khorne Tournament

HQ:
1 Daemon Prince, 270 pts (Daemonic Flight; DG: Warp-forged Armour; DA: Daemon of Khorne; Greater Rewards x1; Exalted Rewards; Warlord)

Troops:
9 Bloodletters of Khorne, 115 pts
1 Bloodreaper (DR: Lesser Rewards x1)

9 Bloodletters of Khorne, 115 pts
1 Bloodreaper (DR: Lesser Rewards x1)

Heavy Support:
1 Soul Grinder, 165 pts (Mawcannon - Phlegm; DA: Daemon of Khorne)

1 Soul Grinder, 165 pts (Mawcannon - Phlegm; DA: Daemon of Khorne)

1 Soul Grinder, 165 pts (Mawcannon - Phlegm; DA: Daemon of Khorne)

Total Roster Cost: 995


The missions will be: Purge The Alien, Big Guns Never Tire and The Relic (with a possible slight variation)

I intend to use the book on purge the alien, and the portal in big guns and the relic to spawn some more troops. I thinkt he grinders will hold my anti-air well as well as anti MEQ.

The prince can hunt rip tides if needed or attack their infantry.

How is your delivery of the bloodletters? If they start on the field, I'd say a 5-6 cause I just feel they will get blown away, but maybe if they were carefully being deep struck on hopefully turn 3-4 for objective grab or to tie up units from scoring I'd say a 7-8 with this list. I dig the khorne theme and those soul grinders would be a head ache haha. But yeah idk what kind of player you are, so based solely on list I'm going to give it a 6 or a 7. If the meta wasn't all tau and Eldar everywhere hell I'd say the list has some good chances of tearing up the opposition. Too bad gun lines are everywhere though.

6

Yeah i intend to ds them starting with the grinders on the field blasting away and the prince swooping around picking off key targets. The letters are there for objectives only. I think the prince and 3 grinders will do a lot of damage at 1,000 pts

Wave Serpents don't hurt soul grinders at all. lol serpent shield needs 6s, ive faced eldar before and the soul grinder is the only thing that always survives the serpent spam guaranteed while being able to take down several serpents

Riptides I can see as a possible problem, but i can always just deep strike the grinders right into tau lines if i start the bloodletters hidden out of LoS with the prince on and swooping behind terrain.

Tau also have a really hard time dealing with the AV13 soul grinders with a 5+ inv and 4 hps.

I am concerned about hammerheads but in general tau are relying on broadsides with missles and riptides which my grinders laugh at.

I think daemons with FMCs are a big cause for concern for me though or Nids with several MCs.

Thanks for the rate and review

7 its good but the DP might be a point sink against tau/eldar lists with mass grounding tests. Also you have very few troops.

Rating : 1

Khorne daemon princes are a waste of space. Worst unit in the book.

You have way too few troops. Those bloodletters will killed by Turn 5 almost every game and youll have no scoring.

Daemon of Khorne on grinders is also pretty useless. Drop at least 1 and spend the points on flesh hounds.

Interesting, thanks for the rate and reviews.

I'd like to however remind you all that this is a 1,000 pts game. My opponents will be just as limited by the point limit and if you read the missions one of them is big guns never tire that means those soul grinders ARE scoring.

The other is purge the alien, so troops don't even matter.

Last mission is the relic and I have potential to drop a portal and ds bloodletters on the relic.


Dunno why there's so much focus on my lack of troops in the opinons so far

mostly I would just say to swap out the deamon prince for a greater deamon, for the same price you get + 1 wound and much more importantly +1 toughness, bringing them to the almighty 6 of toughness which is not scared of smashing MC and other Str 10 dudes or shooters.
also a bunch of other stuff depending on which greater deamon you choose.
A Bloodthirster is always nice but I think a Changer of Ways might be your best bet.

3 Soulgrinder of nurgle is kinda super cheese. I think they will do the whole job on their own. well a greater deamon is hard to ignore too.

maybe exchanging one of the soulgrinders for more troops, you can get 20 deamonettes for those points which would be fun. you could take less to leave some points to finish upgrading your greater deamon.

I'll second the greater daemon idea! The prince is the same points as a bloodthirster with a single greater gift. And you can use the prince model as a blood thirster! You'll lose your exalted though...

If you are going to run a DP, can you squeeze a lesser gift from somewhere? And axe of khorn with decappitate is really nice.

Otherwise, I love the list and considering your missions I think you'll do very well.

7/10 as is

8-9/10 with a BT.

Guys i'm not changing the list, I believe i said the list won't be changed and that i have NO inventory to swap anything with. Your suggestions are pointless for that reason.

Please stick to offering perhaps tactical advice, or a review that doesn't include 'swap this for that' because there's literally NOTHING to swap for.

I also said i'm going for a khorne theme, i'm dumbfounded by the suggestion to throw in some tzeentch stuff. I can only assume you aren't following the forum guidelines please have a look at them.

Otherwise thank you all for your assistance

A daemon prince can quite easily be used as a bloodthirster. I didn't suggest anything that requires different models. Sorry if it's irritated you, but going off of your other threads I thought it was appropriate.

I think as is that DP will get nailed, keep him in the air turn one, and make use of lots of cover after that.

I'd deep strike reserve the blood letters, they're incredibly flimsy, will be good to jump on objectives.

Lots of obscuring cover for the grinders, and shoot the hell out of them. - you will really really need all 3 of these to perform if sticking to a normal DP.

Although I agree on the suggestions of Tzeench! One of the biggest things that annoys me! "Take a MoTz and just paint him red! - How about GO AWAY! I ONLY WANT KHORNE!

I'll stick by my rating of 7/10, it'd be lower if I was rating it on competitiveness alone, but it's themed, and I LOVE themed lists. Plus I reckon it'll be fun to play!

4 - 3 Soul grinders at 1000 points is good but you've the worst mark on them. Flying DP likewise is solid at 1k but again the wrong mark hampers him. Deepstriking units with no shooting is frankly bizarre. 2 minimum units of T3 models as all your scoring means you are reliant on tabling and are ill equipped to do so.

Also what is the point of posting if you don't want any suggestions? Just hoping for an ego boost from people giving you high scores? If so my advice is post a stronger list.

 FlingitNow wrote:
4 - 3 Soul grinders at 1000 points is good but you've the worst mark on them. Flying DP likewise is solid at 1k but again the wrong mark hampers him. Deepstriking units with no shooting is frankly bizarre. 2 minimum units of T3 models as all your scoring means you are reliant on tabling and are ill equipped to do so.

Also what is the point of posting if you don't want any suggestions? Just hoping for an ego boost from people giving you high scores? If so my advice is post a stronger list.

Please follow forum guidelines, read thread thoroughly before replying, thank you.

How was I breaking the forum guidelines? Why do you assume I haven't read your post?

Also please let me know how using for Prince to hunt Riptides turns out for you. Given that you have no shooting attacks and are unlikely to win in combat (on average you're dead in 2 rounds of combat and you do less than a wound each round)...

 FlingitNow wrote:
How was I breaking the forum guidelines? Why do you assume I haven't read your post?

Also please let me know how using for Prince to hunt Riptides turns out for you. Given that you have no shooting attacks and are unlikely to win in combat (on average you're dead in 2 rounds of combat and you do less than a wound each round)...

I see both sides of the argument here, he is trying to make a khorne army so comments about the mark aren't constructive to this conversation but I know you we're just making a tactical point about the marks ability and yes it is the worst. If he's set in his ways though I don't understand why he bothered posting the list. It is in fact him who should re-read the forum guidelines as what he wants (tactics) is inn appropriate for this forum.

It truly is a bizarre request to ask for feedback but then restrict the manner in which you receive it, and then complain when people provide it. Not wanting "suggestions" but wanting a review is a bit pedantic.

At any rate, I give it a 4 overall. Not enough scoring units, not enough anti-flyer (a lot of armies have rather cheap Flyers and Flying MCs so I'd expect to see 1 in an opponent's army), and no real reliable delivery system for the Bloodletters. They have next to no mobility once they get in. 10 close combat oriented Daemons make for rather weak Troop choices given they are not much better than Tactical Marines in combat and more likely to suffer some pain there thanks to Daemonic Instability.

The Soul Grinders and Daemon Prince will cause the enemy a lot of grief, but if they remember to play the Mission they'll focus on your Bloodletters and prevent you from being able to win. With Big Guns Never Tire your Soul Grinders become the highest priority as they are scoring and give the enemy a Victory Point if they take them out, which they are already inclined to do with how deadly they are (especially at low point games).

I rated and reviewed his list, gave my oppiniom and didn't make any suggestions. I complied exactly with what he asked.

I then asked a question as to the point of the thread here and surmised an answer and gave him extra feedback based on that surmised answer. If my surmised answer is incorrect he could simply provide me with the correct one. That would help me give him a response more in line with what he wants.

If he's just after tactical advice on how to use the list then as you point out he's in the wrong forum and should ask a mod to move it for him.

 FlingitNow wrote:
How was I breaking the forum guidelines? Why do you assume I haven't read your post?

Also please let me know how using for Prince to hunt Riptides turns out for you. Given that you have no shooting attacks and are unlikely to win in combat (on average you're dead in 2 rounds of combat and you do less than a wound each round)...

The Forum Rules - Please read the sticky thread at the heading of this forum if you don't understand why i'm responding like this

A quick clarification about the purpose of the Army Lists forum:

This is a place to post your list so that other people can give you feedback on it. By default, the sort of responses most people are looking for are ways to improve the list and make it function better in a competitive environment, so if not otherwise specified, thats the kind of feedback which should be expected.

If the original poster wants, however, they can put some restrictions on the kind of suggestions folks should offer. They can, for example, specify particular units they really want to use, or list the models they own and ask people to restrict their suggestions to ones which use those models, or (e.g.) those models plus one or two more units, if they're on a budget and can't buy a bunch of new items at the moment. Or maybe ask for help constructing a whole army within a certain total budget.

The original poster can also ask for other types of feedback. Such as asking how well a list fits a particular theme, or a Composition scoring guideline, or whether it would be good against a particular enemy army.

In all cases the person posting the list has a responsibility to be clear about what they're asking for if it's anything other than pure competitive feedback. And responding posters have a responsibility to be respectful and attentive to such specifications. Posts which ignore such requests and specificartions will generally be considered off topic and may be deleted or otherwise incur other moderator censure.

I've highlighted relevant items to this discussion. Those are the forum guidelines here.

On another note your advice suggested I change marks in a thread where i've clearly said i'm not changing the list and am sticking to a khorne theme. Thus you ignored what's written on the first post.

This is accentuated by the fact that you then go on about my lack of troops?

Which again if you had READ the post first (as per the forum guidelines) you'd understand quite clearly that I will be playing this list in 3 specific missions. Purge The Alien doesn't need scoring units. Big Guns Never Tire lets my 3 soul grinders score. Lastly the relic is the only one where the lack of scoring is even a factor and ive already said I have the exalted gift to activate the portal in that scenario to generate more troops. Seems to me that my bases are covered in terms of troops/scoring

Please take the time to read the poster's instructions and full post before replying next time. It makes your critism/review/help more constructive and overall more useful if you just read a little bit more carefully. Thank you and I hope this clarifies the matter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BaconUprising wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
How was I breaking the forum guidelines? Why do you assume I haven't read your post?

Also please let me know how using for Prince to hunt Riptides turns out for you. Given that you have no shooting attacks and are unlikely to win in combat (on average you're dead in 2 rounds of combat and you do less than a wound each round)...

I see both sides of the argument here, he is trying to make a khorne army so comments about the mark aren't constructive to this conversation but I know you we're just making a tactical point about the marks ability and yes it is the worst. If he's set in his ways though I don't understand why he bothered posting the list. It is in fact him who should re-read the forum guidelines as what he wants (tactics) is inn appropriate for this forum.

Read the above forum guidelines as i've highlighted and see note that every op is entitled to 'restrict' the feedback received.

In my case I want a list review and perhaps thoughts on the scenarios i'll be facing with this list. It doesn't help me if all you can do is change my list into your list. An army list forum is not all about editing someone else's list, if so this would be posted under the description.

However even in the guidelines it specifically points out that this is not always the case, that not every OP will be interested in feedback to 'optimize' his list. And it is the responder's responsibility to read and follow such instructions

Post what you want. I can't see you receiving many actual responses to it though...

Well after reading your excerpt from the guidelines it says the poster can specify what kind of feedback they want, for example if they are on a budget or want to use certain units. This doesn't include an entire list in which nothing is susceptible to change. What is the point of posting an entire list when you have no will to change any of it. You don't even ask for tactical advice, just a rating out of 10. Completely and utterly pointless. Again due to certain responses in one of your threads I believe this thread needs a moderators attention.

Regards

Spank.

On another note your advice suggested I change marks in a thread where i've clearly said i'm not changing the list and am sticking to a khorne theme. Thus you ignored what's written on the first post.

This is accentuated by the fact that you then go on about my lack of troops?

Which again if you had READ the post first (as per the forum guidelines) you'd understand quite clearly that I will be playing this list in 3 specific missions. Purge The Alien doesn't need scoring units. Big Guns Never Tire lets my 3 soul grinders score. Lastly the relic is the only one where the lack of scoring is even a factor and ive already said I have the exalted gift to activate the portal in that scenario to generate more troops. Seems to me that my bases are covered in terms of troops/scoring

I didn't offer any advice on changes. I reviewed list and highlighted the issued that lead to my rating. I did exactly what you asked:

How would you guys rate this list on a scale of 1 to 10.
1 = Non-competitive play, gaks and giggles
10 = Tournament winning, game breaking

Please NO SUGGESTIONS. Feel free to rate, review and give your opinion.

I complied with this entirely. Also note the forum guidelines say you can restrict suggestions nothing states that you can say you want no feedback at all. Since you don't even want the feedback that you've asked for. What exactly do you want people to comment on?

There is a work-around to the no suggestions rule, just post commands not suggestions

Yeah honestly I'd give this list a 3. At 1000 points it simply will not hold up.

The DP and BL's are simply too easy to deal with. The grinders are the only real staying power but even then they are easy to bog down.

The problem is the list synergy. Even then if all goes well and your grinders are able to soften up your opponent enough for your DP to finish the units off you just just lose momentum.

Split your troops into smaller squads is the only way you can start to get an advantage.

The way your list looks now it would not hold up to any reasonable deathstar unit from an actually assault based army nor would it hold against any type of gunline.

SpankingApe wrote:
Well after reading your excerpt from the guidelines it says the poster can specify what kind of feedback they want, for example if they are on a budget or want to use certain units. This doesn't include an entire list in which nothing is susceptible to change. What is the point of posting an entire list when you have no will to change any of it. You don't even ask for tactical advice, just a rating out of 10. Completely and utterly pointless. Again due to certain responses in one of your threads I believe this thread needs a moderators attention.

Regards

Spank.

Read again

And I quote

or whether it would be good against a particular enemy army.

There's been plenty people that have replied and given me very thorough reviews including who they thought this would fare well against or get smashed by. As well as pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of the list as is.

Not all feedback needs to be 'change this change that' and that's the only kind of feedback im restricting. Why is that so hard to understand? I've no clue, but i've seen plenty folk do it with grace and i've thanked them and heeded their thoughts

It's only thought that are adamant about not following the forum guidelines and forcefully wanting to project their own lists onto others that seem to have a problem with this. I don't want my list to look like everyone else's I simply want my list analised perhaps broken down and reviewed wether good or bad that is a win for me as I can hear other's opinions on the performance of what i'm fielding not what they are fielding.

Now can we please move on from this topic? Any more derailing and i'll have to start reporting people. if you'd liketo further discuss this just PM me i'd be happy to respond through PM.

Read again

And I quote

or whether it would be good against a particular enemy army.

There's been plenty people that have replied and given me very thorough reviews including who they thought this would fare well against or get smashed by. As well as pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of the list as is.

Please highlight where in your OP you mention ANYTHING about wanting advice about which armies the list would be good against. From your own quote:

In all cases the person posting the list has a responsibility to be clear about what they're asking for if it's anything other than pure competitive feedback.

Where as what you state you want is:

How would you guys rate this list on a scale of 1 to 10.
1 = Non-competitive play, gaks and giggles
10 = Tournament winning, game breaking

Please NO SUGGESTIONS. Feel free to rate, review and give your opinion.

Which is exactly what I did. I gave you a rating (4), I reviewed your list to explain the rating (worst mark for Soulgrinders and DP, not enough troops). This was my honest opinion. I did not make any suggestions (or even mention which are the best marks for those units or how many troops I would suggest taking).

You didn't ask me what armies I thought it would do well against and what armies it would struggle against even if you had my post would still have complied with what you asked it just wouldn't have given you everything you asked for.

As for telling you to have my list I have not done that and I've not seen a single poster on this thread do that (though granted I have seen lots of people do that on many threads). If I was doing Daemons I would run a primarily Khorne list but it would be very different to your list as I would take the units that work well for Khorne rather than putting the Khorne mark on units that work much better with a different mark. The only feedback you have thanked people for is positive feedback where people have given you ludicrously high scores, which illustrates what I first posted as my surmised reason for the thread.