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The Tau Pathfinders have the ability to take up to three special weapons, like the Ion Rifle and the Rail Rifle, for a little fee. That sounds pretty good, as both can make short work of many different kinds of infantry, but here come the kicker - you also lose what make Pathfinders effective, namely the Markerlights, which keep up the synergy of most Tau armies.

On the other hand we have the Fire Warriors, who has some pretty awesome weapons in the Pulse Rifle and Carbine, but nothing special beyond that. I like my Fire Warriors, but I can't stop feeling that something is wrong with them. They lack variety.

So, my idea is: Why not give the Fire Warriors the ability to take some special weapons instead of the Pathfinders? They would be much better suited for the role, and it wouldn't make me feel bad for the many Ion and Rail Rifles I have left in my Pathfinder box, because I just can't use them. They would be able to swap them for their standard weaponry for a small fee, just like Tacs and Guardsmen work.

What do you think?

I've wanted this since 3rd edition when they introduced the Pathfinder Rail Rifle.

It never made much sense to me that the core troop choice, the Firewarriors, had no heavy or special weapons within the squad. I thought surely here in 6th Ed and the new Codex, they would get that option. Nope. But the Pathfinders got even MORE new equipment (Ion Rifles, all those fancy Drones). It would seem GW has no love for the humble Firewarrior. Oh, wait, they got a HQ choice that uses up a HQ slot, with pretty much the exact same statline as a Firewarrior...

If there was only some way to unlock Pathfinders as a Troops choice, then I'd be really, really happy.

 Tamwulf wrote:
I've wanted this since 3rd edition when they introduced the Pathfinder Rail Rifle.

It never made much sense to me that the core troop choice, the Firewarriors, had no heavy or special weapons within the squad. I thought surely here in 6th Ed and the new Codex, they would get that option. Nope. But the Pathfinders got even MORE new equipment (Ion Rifles, all those fancy Drones). It would seem GW has no love for the humble Firewarrior. Oh, wait, they got a HQ choice that uses up a HQ slot, with pretty much the exact same statline as a Firewarrior...

If there was only some way to unlock Pathfinders as a Troops choice, then I'd be really, really happy.

Think of the mess of Markerlights that could make. 2 FW squads and feckin' 7 10-man Pathfinder-teams with Markerlights? That is a general 35 hits of Markerlights per turn!

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
I've wanted this since 3rd edition when they introduced the Pathfinder Rail Rifle.

It never made much sense to me that the core troop choice, the Firewarriors, had no heavy or special weapons within the squad. I thought surely here in 6th Ed and the new Codex, they would get that option. Nope. But the Pathfinders got even MORE new equipment (Ion Rifles, all those fancy Drones). It would seem GW has no love for the humble Firewarrior. Oh, wait, they got a HQ choice that uses up a HQ slot, with pretty much the exact same statline as a Firewarrior...

If there was only some way to unlock Pathfinders as a Troops choice, then I'd be really, really happy.

Think of the mess of Markerlights that could make. 2 FW squads and feckin' 7 10-man Pathfinder-teams with Markerlights? That is a general 35 hits of Markerlights per turn!

and who would like to play against tau then? with even more special weapons and more markerlights, i sure don't.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

What do you think?

Fluff contradicts it and the last thing the Fire Warriors need is some extra goodness.

Maybe make an Elites selection Special Weapons Team with 8 FWs and 3 has the option to swap their weapons for rail/ion rifles if you really want to make this happen.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

What do you think?

Fluff contradicts it and the last thing the Fire Warriors need is some extra goodness.

Maybe make an Elites selection Special Weapons Team with 8 FWs and 3 has the option to swap their weapons for rail/ion rifles if you really want to make this happen.

That could be pretty good. My idea was to remove the Pathfinders ability to use the weapons and then give them to the FW, for a nice cost, one per squad.

A special Weapon squad could be cool too, with portable Burstcannons, Smart Missile Systems or Fusion Blasters, along with the Rail Rifles and Ion Rifles. Lets call them Light Burstcannon, Smart Missile Launcher and Fusion Rifles.

I've always wanted some elite FWs anyway who were more hardy than the rest, kinda like Guard Vetereans.

Fluff/Cannon dictates that the ground infantry are forbidden essentially from having special weapons. This is to force them to rely on the other members of the military (Battlesuit pilots, Hammerhead/Piranha crews which are notably piloted by Firewarriors, Air Caste air support, etc) which helps enforce the interdependent nature of the Tau style of warfare and society. It's also partly a honor to be granted the higher level equipment after having earned the right by serving for a length of time as a basic ground-pounder. Once a Firewarrior has proven his mastery over this basic kit, promotion! Either to the Pathfinders who essentialy are the basic veterans who are entrusted with special kit for research and because their battlefield role requires them to be a little more prepared or specialised. Or to the many Battlesuit Pilot roles. There is a profound logic to having all your forces come up from the same roots of battlefield training and experience.

In game however there is the option of taking Markerlights and pairing them to Seeker Missiles to get that extra umph out of your troops, though it's costly. If nothing else though a Cadre Fireblade on a Quad Gun is a little silly! XD

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Fluff/Cannon dictates that the ground infantry are forbidden essentially from having special weapons. This is to force them to rely on the other members of the military (Battlesuit pilots, Hammerhead/Piranha crews which are notably piloted by Firewarriors, Air Caste air support, etc) which helps enforce the interdependent nature of the Tau style of warfare and society. It's also partly a honor to be granted the higher level equipment after having earned the right by serving for a length of time as a basic ground-pounder. Once a Firewarrior has proven his mastery over this basic kit, promotion! Either to the Pathfinders who essentialy are the basic veterans who are entrusted with special kit for research and because their battlefield role requires them to be a little more prepared or specialised. Or to the many Battlesuit Pilot roles. There is a profound logic to having all your forces come up from the same roots of battlefield training and experience.

In game however there is the option of taking Markerlights and pairing them to Seeker Missiles to get that extra umph out of your troops, though it's costly. If nothing else though a Cadre Fireblade on a Quad Gun is a little silly! XD

I would like an ADL, but it doesn't fir my Tau army, much... I would love to be able to modify it so it looks tau-ish.

I like many others built my own. I used translucent blue plastic dessert plates cut in half glued to a "Pylon" made out of a little bit of foamboard(all of a whopping $1.99), some epoxy-sculpt ($4 bucks worth tops) some Drone heads/saucers(buy a box of like Crisis, or the Battleforce for a ton of these), a white primer, a Tau decal sheet, and finally a clear-coat. Look awesome. I'm going to start converting a Skyray kit in to the gun emplacement. I feel like Tau artillery should be mounted on the skimmer hull like all their other stuff, might scale it down to a Piranha hull though. One of the big resin wargaming accesory producers just came out with a ADL equivalent that is supposed to be Tau styling, or close too any way.

KnuckleWolf wrote:
I like many others built my own. I used translucent blue plastic dessert plates cut in half glued to a "Pylon" made out of a little bit of foamboard(all of a whopping $1.99), some epoxy-sculpt ($4 bucks worth tops) some Drone heads/saucers(buy a box of like Crisis, or the Battleforce for a ton of these), a white primer, a Tau decal sheet, and finally a clear-coat. Look awesome. I'm going to start converting a Skyray kit in to the gun emplacement. I feel like Tau artillery should be mounted on the skimmer hull like all their other stuff, might scale it down to a Piranha hull though. One of the big resin wargaming accesory producers just came out with a ADL equivalent that is supposed to be Tau styling, or close too any way.

That sounds so cool, I might just make one! I could also just buy an ADL and paint it like it was salvaged and repainted to fit the Tau more.

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Fluff/Cannon dictates that the ground infantry are forbidden essentially from having special weapons.

Except pathfinders, who got pack 2 guns core, plus the option to take two special weapons (weapons that no battlesuit can take, and are pretty much exclusive)

Yea, I think something might have gone wrong here....

As for giving FW some own special weapons. allowing them 3 rail rifle/ion rifle per team rather then the pathfinders seems fair enough, and should not brake anything when you consider then very things that combo with firewarriors require pulse weapons.
After all, currently they only see light in minimum-sized pathfinder special weapon suicide outflankers (outflank some rails, kill some TeQ, die.) nobody really FIELDS them as a foot or mech based force, because they take up the precious FA slot, on squad too squishy to make the cost sane. and to make things worse, the guns on the non-weaponised squad members don't match at all.
The pathfinder team got way too many toys in it (both special guns, all three support drones) compared to fire warriors (pulse rifles?)-and nobody ever fields any of these toys, because they are pointless in the hands of pathfinders. the recon drone is natural for pathfinders, the other two? would work just as well or better for warriors.

Give the guns to the fire warriors.
Maybe that way people would bother with them. (and maybe it will reopen devilfish tau infantry builds.)


Also. a third radical gun option I have in mind as a pure homebrew-EMP launcher? (requires the EMP upgrade, Assault 1 range 18 EMP shot, counts within the 3 special weapon limit)
Would turn the fluffy yet silly EMP commandos into a real

@BoomWolf: Already covered that bit too:

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Once a Firewarrior has proven his mastery over this basic kit, promotion! Either to the Pathfinders who essentialy are the basic veterans who are entrusted with special kit for research and because their battlefield role requires them to be a little more prepared or specialised.

I'm not entirely opposed to the ideas, but just be careful to keep the original codex authors intent there. I always thought the carbine grenade launcher should be an upgrade that costs a point, and can either fire as Photon or EMP, depending on which the model has. Limit 1 per two Shas'la/Shas'ui. I also felt that the markerlight upgrade to a Shas'ui should be a given and be able to fire with his normal weapon.

P.S. On the ADL thing I wish I could put up pics of mine but no can do. The company I mentioned I'm pretty sure was Micro Art Studios, the one that does a lot of the infinity terrain. The product name is "Tau-ceti Defense wall" or something like that. I thought of picking one up to supplement mine for more variety. I think they were like 30 bucks or so which wasn't bad at all for what you got.

KnuckleWolf wrote:
@BoomWolf: Already covered that bit too:

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Once a Firewarrior has proven his mastery over this basic kit, promotion! Either to the Pathfinders who essentialy are the basic veterans who are entrusted with special kit for research and because their battlefield role requires them to be a little more prepared or specialised.

I'm not entirely opposed to the ideas, but just be careful to keep the original codex authors intent there. I always thought the carbine grenade launcher should be an upgrade that costs a point, and can either fire as Photon or EMP, depending on which the model has. Limit 1 per two Shas'la/Shas'ui. I also felt that the markerlight upgrade to a Shas'ui should be a given and be able to fire with his normal weapon.

P.S. On the ADL thing I wish I could put up pics of mine but no can do. The company I mentioned I'm pretty sure was Micro Art Studios, the one that does a lot of the infinity terrain. The product name is "Tau-ceti Defense wall" or something like that. I thought of picking one up to supplement mine for more variety. I think they were like 30 bucks or so which wasn't bad at all for what you got.

Those are awesome! Might just get me some of those.

KnuckleWolf wrote:
@BoomWolf: Already covered that bit too:

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Once a Firewarrior has proven his mastery over this basic kit, promotion! Either to the Pathfinders who essentialy are the basic veterans who are entrusted with special kit for research and because their battlefield role requires them to be a little more prepared or specialised.

I'm not entirely opposed to the ideas, but just be careful to keep the original codex authors intent there. I always thought the carbine grenade launcher should be an upgrade that costs a point, and can either fire as Photon or EMP, depending on which the model has. Limit 1 per two Shas'la/Shas'ui. I also felt that the markerlight upgrade to a Shas'ui should be a given and be able to fire with his normal weapon.

P.S. On the ADL thing I wish I could put up pics of mine but no can do. The company I mentioned I'm pretty sure was Micro Art Studios, the one that does a lot of the infinity terrain. The product name is "Tau-ceti Defense wall" or something like that. I thought of picking one up to supplement mine for more variety. I think they were like 30 bucks or so which wasn't bad at all for what you got.

"Congrats, you got promoted, let us take off your armor?"
What is it, opposite space marines?
Cant really see them as a "promotion" as long as they pack paper armor.
And as I said, the way it is now, the guns are simply irrelevant, as nobody takes them as they mismatch the basic pathfinder guns.
Pathfinders are awesome and all, but they are not veteran fire warriors. just another path of advancement for a fire warrior. and there is no reason why they hog ALL the toys.

 BoomWolf wrote:
"Congrats, you got promoted, let us take off your armor?"
What is it, opposite space marines?
Cant really see them as a "promotion" as long as they pack paper armor.
And as I said, the way it is now, the guns are simply irrelevant, as nobody takes them as they mismatch the basic pathfinder guns.
Pathfinders are awesome and all, but they are not veteran fire warriors. just another path of advancement for a fire warrior. and there is no reason why they hog ALL the toys.

And yet the Firewarriors get Pulse Rifles. Quite honestly the best standard issue gun for infantry in the whole game. I would call that hogging toys. and yeah it is kinda bass-ackwawards to marines. They are after all an alien race. And I take the Rail Rifles going up against melee rush armies for the rapid-fire overwatch and the Ion Rifles for overcharge barrages at whatever comes in range. They aren't great but they are fun to play.

Pathfinders aren't elite Fire Warriors. Crisis Suits are elite Fire Warriors.

The Pathfinder corps is where they send the Fire Warriors who are too individual, too unpredictable to allow to progress up in the ranks normally. You're just as likely to get passed into the Pathfinder corps as a result of a disciplinary hearing as you are because you volunteered (and Pathfinders are volunteers, not promoted veterans, according to the codex).

That's why Pathfinders get the strange gear, because your standard Fire Warrior hasn't shown the imagination to be flexible enough to use them properly.

Remember, the Tau military has a strict rank system. Serve for four years as 'la, become an 'ui. Serve for four years as an 'ui, become a 'vre. When you become an 'ui, the choice is to go into the Crisis Teams, or become a Warrior squad leader and test for the Crisis Teams in another four years.

Presumably (using guesswork for the first time in this post), that means that Stealth Teams are veteran Pathfinders in the same way that Crisis Teams are veteran Fire Warriors.

Actually both fire warriors and pathfinders are offered either crisis or stealth teams. The rail rifle and ion rifle were developed to give the pathfinders for protection because they are often somewhat separated from the rest of the cadre

Also, as far as I know, a the surviving team members are split when they reach shas'ui, and join another team. after four years those surviving leaders join back in one crisis team.

The problem with pathfinder is that they are terribly priced to run as a small unit with some special weapons and their wargear isn't really up to that task. They are meant to be able to be kitted out for a few different roles, where firewarriors are just meant to shoot their single gun.

Really I think that pathfinders with special weapons and firewarriors without isn't that bad, but only bad in execution since the pathfinders are bad as an offensive platform. If perhaps they gave the team leader a networked markerlight, so that he could boost the special weapons every other turn to BS4, they probably wouldn't be that bad as small little commando units. Oh and if the markerlight wasn't a Heavy weapon.

Funny sidenote, line up the weapons in the pathfinder kit. 2 huge guns are rapidfire, the carbines are assault, and the easily overlooked flashlight attachtment is Heavy. Now I know people will say "but it has to be heavy for balance" which doesn't work anymore since most people take markerdrones, buffcommanders, and allied farseers which aren't limited in movement.

The reason that the Markerlight is a heavy weapon is because you have to hold it steady on the target until the weapon taking advantage of the marker bonus has shot, whereas other weapons you aim, pull the trigger, then you can forget about it because the shot is already in the air and no longer affected by the direction the gun is pointing.

It would be alright I think to give the Firewarriors a "Marker Grenade". Some kind of device they could throw or shoot that calls in an airstrike from space or some bananas like that. Like: Homing Marker 30pts Range 12" Assault 1, Barrage 2, Str 7 Ap 5, one use only. The Idea here is the Homing marker calls in a shot from an orbital twin-linked Rail gun/Ion cannon(hence Barrage 2) to a beacon tossed by a Firewarrior Shas'ui.

Your talk of Tau hath summoned me from my slumber.

Experienced fire warriors are not promoted to the pathfinder teams. Pathfinder teams are voluntary and they have the highest casualty rate, but this just makes more Shas'la volunteer. In addition, Tau military doctrine, the code of fire, does not allow for special weapons, this is to force teams focus on their battlefield role, which is to create a steady firing line. In the fluff, pathfinders are used as scouts and special weapons teams, however I do agree that in the crunch they are poor special weapons teams.

The functionality of your proposed marker grenade is very similar to the seeker missile. Perhaps change this to a free attack (ie does not count as a weapon fired) and allow a better variation of missiles.

Marker grenades do in fact exist, one of the forgeworld models has them, though I can't remember which.

I have some suggestions for pathfinders. I hope you like them.

Instead of charging the current exorbitant rate for a Shas'Ui to hold a markerlight, bring back something similar to the last codex's infantry armoury, offering the 4 hard-wired systems (blacksun filter, drone controller, multi-tracker and target lock) at 5pts each, bump markerlights down to 5 pts and networked markerlights for 10pts. Allow Shas'Ui and any higher ranking infantry to take from the list.

Add a pathfinders w/o markerlights variant for troops at 8pts a pathfinder, limited to 2 squads / detachment (they'll be like rubbish fire warriors until you upgrade them). Allow them to take pulse rifles (free). Disallow the recon drone from them. Allow both kinds of pathfinder team to trade one pathfinder for a firesight marksman in recon armour with a pulse pistol(free) the marksman may take items from the infantry armoury. Allow the troops pathfinders to take combat armour for 1pt/model. Any squad with a pulse carbine increases their grenade range to 18" (free, does not take up special weapon choices). Allow, in the same vein as pulse accelerator & grav-inhibitor drones, a stealth field drone, basic drone stat-line, 15pts, squad gets stealth.

For fire warriors... no upgrades. Except for the opportunity to take pulse accelerator and grav-inhibitor drones for 15pts but lock the teams to a specific weapon, rifles for the former and carbines for the latter.

More special characters for both them and pathfinders in a similar way to Tellion (only 1, no slots www.dakkadakka.com to not take up an HQ slot if you choose (it's still not cheap so I do not fear fireblade spam).

That's what I can think of now. What say you?

I like the idea of giving them the pulse accelerator.